10. When Things Seemed Fine

What happens when things seem fine… only to discover they don't? In this raw and revealing conversation, Mike shares his powerful story of betrayal, survival, and long-term healing after infidelity. His story, like so many others, reminds us that affairs don’t always stem from obvious issues, and that the journey to reconciliation is rarely linear.

Key Takeaways:

• Discover how seemingly “fine” relationships can still hide emotional disconnection.

• Understand the impact of unhealed trauma, 15 years after an affair.

• Learn how avoidance and suppressed emotions can quietly resurface.

• See how vulnerability and emotional intimacy can reignite connection.

• Hear the real-world struggles of navigating fear, doubt, and societal judgment.

💬 Reflection questions:

Have you ever revisited pain from the past, even years later? How did it affect your relationship or your healing?

Connect with Luke:

• Website: www.lifecoachluke.com

• Instagram: @mylifecoachluke

• Email: luke@lifecoachluke.com

Join the After the Affair community at www.facebook.com/groups/aftertheaffaircommunity

Episode Transcript:

The After The Affair podcast with me Luke Shillings is here to help you process, decide and move forward on purpose following infidelity. Together we'll explore what's required to rebuild trust not only in yourself but also with others. Whether you stay or leave I can help and no matter what your story there will be something here for you.

Let's go! Episode 10! I cannot believe it's episode 10 already, amazing! So welcome to the After The Affair podcast with myself Luke Shillings, episode number 10. As we progress through this podcast journey together I'd like to start bringing guests on to share their expertise or sometimes simply share their story. Something that I think will be really useful to anybody going through infidelity.

Today is the first part of that journey where I have a conversation with people who are living it, people who are experiencing it just like myself and like many of those listening. So in this first of the interview episodes I'm speaking with Mike who has courageously come on to the show to share his story. Mike, like many of those listening, has not had a clear path through infidelity, when things seemed fine.

Often there are forks in the road and you must follow a different path. Sometimes you think you have things under control and you know where you are heading and then something unexpected happens which completely changes your journey. Mike's story is a tale of two halves.

So without further ado let's jump in. Okay well thank you for being here Mike. It's great to have you on the podcast and I'm sure that our listeners will have and be able to learn plenty from our conversation today.

So let's start by learning a little bit about you and why we're here. Sure, yeah. I'm kind of in the club that no one wants to be in.

But yeah, so 17 years ago my wife had an affair with her co-worker at the time and this is kind of a corporate environment and the thing of it was also that I actually worked there as well. So I wasn't in the same department with them but I was close by so all of this kind of happened at work. So I mean just to I guess run through the whole kind of story.

I married my wife in 2003. I think we've been together for about four years prior to that. I think we were both in our... I met her pretty young like in college.

I was in my early 20s. She's great. I mean like you know fantastic person, fantastic memories of those early years.

And you know we kind of got married. Well we did get married in 2005 and you know kind of embarked on our life together and basically kind of you know this is right after she graduated from college. I was already working at this company.

This is kind of a rough stage of her life because she didn't really immediately get a job right after college. That really kind of affected her self-esteem I think. And also she has like hereditary depression like just on her side of the family.

So it was kind of a rough phase of our you know relationship in that she just found it incredibly difficult to get a job, to get a master's degree in finance. But basically yet no companies wanted to hire her because she had no previous experience right. So that kind of gave her kind of a dent to her self-esteem.

And there's really... I kind of have you know my hands were tied because I mean like I can't just give her a job. But you know we I think we had moved you know to an area that we felt would be better you know for her to find a job. But we were still having no luck and it was several months of that.

She had you know been very very depressed like feeling isolated basically at home all day you know while I'm going to work. And fortunately our company had this employee referral programme and I was able to kind of refer her and they kind of give you know you a leg up if you're referred. And she actually ended up landing the job.

And at that point I was like really really hopeful that she you know this would kind of bring her out of her depression. So and it was it was nice that you know we're at the same company so we could kind of drive together and go home together and you know all that stuff. So yeah she started working at this company.

And you know I think the same day she was hired they hired her co-worker which is the future affair partner. And this guy sat like right next to her right. So they were pretty much going to be working very closely together you know just through the you know their same department just like what they're doing was the same.

So you know I think I was introduced to him. She actually had told me in the early days that she found him annoying. And you know it literally didn't register whatsoever that it would even be possible for her to have an affair.

I mean literally this thought like never entered my mind. Like you know I think you know when you haven't been affected by this it's like oh that won't happen to me right. It's just it's never gonna happen to me.

No no it just doesn't even cross your mind. So my my defences were not up like whatsoever. And so the other thing that was going on at the time was I had this outside hobby.

So I used to race motorcycles not not professionally but at kind of an amateur level. But it was really something that I enjoyed doing. I was never really good at any kind of team sports or anything.

And this seemed to be something that I was you know fairly decent at. And I kind of just been really enjoying that and getting some recognition for that. And I was on like a team and I would get free parts and stuff.

So it was just a fun thing that ended up you know becoming more and more you know gradually. So I was spending some time you know was like you know going off on the weekends here and there to do this racing. And I think how this kind of all started was so the the co-worker the guy and my wife they both just in my last like naturally just a friendly outgoing trusting empathetic person right.

So yeah she's she's not like the kind of person that is like this cold like you know shuts you down like this all we talk about the business type right. So at the time probably should have mentioned this before we were each other's first relationship. So that that's kind of major major factor in kind of her not even realising you know this even the concept of the boundaries right.

And I don't I don't really think she was thinking herself like let me get into this you know emotional attachment to this guy right. Just kind of both of them just throughout the course of their work would just you know be kind of flirty. I think it was mostly initiated by the guy you know they would kind of gossip about their boss together you know kind of mutual shared thing that they had.

And I think just eventually it just started getting you know oh what are you doing this weekend right. And she's like oh my husband is going off racing you know. And I think he you know this guy had a big history with women.

I think he he you know dated a lot. He had a girlfriend at the time but just kind of went through a lot of casual relationships. And he kind of just just sort of you know fell for my wife I guess or just kind of decided to himself you know I kind of like this you know.

I don't I don't care if she's married right. So he kind of just started probing and they were you know I think it just got to the point where he would say like oh yeah I can't believe your husband would meet you alone you know this weekend. You know let's let's maybe hang out or something right.

And it just it was this it started out as this sort of you know friendship quote unquote. And just kind of gradually you know over you know the course of the next two or three months just became a little bit more and more inappropriate right. So like if I had known about some of this I probably would have felt very uncomfortable.

But none of this was really communicated to me whatsoever. So it just kind of continued on and at this at one point they were assigned on a business trip together. So they both were they flew out to you know meet meet some people and talk about you know business.

And that's kind of where the affair kind of reached the next level. It kind of became physical not not like all the way there but that's kind of where she was like oh you know this is this kind of you know I shouldn't have done that right. And you know this is a you know I'm basically you know and being unfaithful at that point.

So this is like a this is a place where there was a recognition that a boundary had been crossed. Oh yeah. So yeah yeah.

I think it's it's interesting that you'd you'd mentioned that you know you never imagined even having thoughts that there's a possibility that your partner could be unfaithful. And I think it's also quite likely and it's only what I see amongst people I talk to and some of my other clients is that actually the unfaithful partners also never imagined that happening either. Like it wasn't a thought that ever entered their mind.

And just like you described in your situation there which you know thanks ever so much for for sharing that that it just something that sort of builds and builds slowly over time. And it's not a case of going from here to there overnight. It's a much more gradual process.

Yeah I liken it to the toad in the pot of water that just gradually gets hotter and hotter and before you know it it's you know it's boiling. So exactly yeah. Perfect.

So after you know this boundary had been crossed you obviously already mentioned that this was what 17 years ago? Is that right? Yeah. And you are still with your wife now? Yes. So what why did you choose to stay once you'd sort of discovered what was going on? Yeah it had gone on for several months after that business trip you know it escalated to a full-blown physical affair.

And then I had obviously no idea she was acting distant and I was like trying to figure out why she confessed right. So initially my reaction was I think it was just fear of being abandoned and just also just not accepting what was happening to me. I thought you know something may be going on something wasn't right.

She had moved out to quote unquote you know find herself or some some other similar reason that I just didn't understand you know. And I I confronted I'd be like are you having an affair right? No you're you know kind of like gaslighting me right like you're crazy. But yeah I think it was initially just fear of being abandoned not not really willing to accept what was going on.

But then also I wanted I think to prove her and her you know affair partner wrong because it was so weird she literally thought that I wouldn't care. Like she thought that I would maybe be mad for a few weeks and then get over it and be like her friend. Like it was it was it was like this Stockholm syndrome thing.

So I think that's the other reason was like no you are incorrect and you know I'm willing to kind of you know work towards reconciling you know. But you need to cut it you know you need to go no contact basically. I mean that's really not entirely possible with the situation.

But I was like you need to quit you know he needs to quit something needs to change. But it was just so like maddening that she had just so like misread me. And I just wanted to prove her wrong.

And and I you know it's just you know I love her. So I really knew her not to be the type of person that this was like like a serial cheater kind of thing. Like she's never like a party or it just felt like something that was very situational.

And like you know you made a mistake. And you know I mean as as grave as that mistake was I didn't feel like it was something that I was willing to walk out for you know and just leave her. I was I was so emotionally invested in her that it was like you know I feel like I can you know I can get over this.

And I think we can get over this. So that was yeah. So once you'd had discovered obviously what was going on and you made this choice to stay like you say and it came from a place of fear.

I think you you said and to an extent almost to try and sort of prove to your wife and the affair partner that you weren't just going to stand for this. And this wasn't just a case of you bowing down and walking away from the situation. Right yeah.

Once you did that I mean how did many other people know about this and what were their opinions and how did you deal with the opinions of the other people? Yeah so I went to my mom first. My mom and I are pretty close. My dad actually he passed away fortunately.

But my mom remarried and so I went to her and her husband first. And you know obviously my mom was very like sympathetic to what was going on. Extremely angry at my wife for that betrayal and you know putting her son through this right.

And she wanted me to leave. But you know my mom's also just a very supportive person of what I want to do. So she was like you know I'll kind of be I have your back you know whatever way you want to go with this.

But honestly like this just like is is too much you know. I feel like you know you need to kind of save your dignity or you know you know she needs to have consequences right. And I totally get that.

And also her husband was kind of you know you need to you know find someone better. People just kind of like that like your support system they don't want to see you get hurt right. So their natural instinct I think is always going to be to you know try to prevent that from happening again.

And the most obvious way that they can see is just to get rid of the source right. And I told her like you know that that didn't really feel right to me if you know my wife was open to reconciliation. I also kind of let her family know exactly what was going on you know because I kind of saw them as a support system to try to talk her kind of talk some sense into her.

And they really liked me and they did not like you know I don't think they had met the better partner ever but just from what had been described I mean you know nobody liked him. So they were her family was supportive of us reconciling versus my family was kind of not so much but yet they were going to be like supportive. My friends I think they kind of you know were like yeah you should you should kind of you know take her to the curb or whatever.

Same thing is you know they just want to protect me. But you know they just didn't feel right to me. So it was kind of just at the end of the day not something I was going to let other people decide for me.

So yeah that was pretty much how they reacted. And again I think that's something that gets seen quite often in many situations. It's something that even I can relate to quite closely.

You know my family and friends definitely were all about wanting to protect me from further harm from future harm. And of course the simplest way to do that is just to remove the problem you know rather than face it or try and fix it or try and resolve the situation. And also not dissimilar from my wife's side.

I had a good relationship with her family and of course I think they would have preferred the relationship to have been you know successful going forward. And I imagine that a lot of people listening can relate to that as well. So once you'd made that decision and you'd sort of started to move on, you'd been talking about it with you know your mother you were saying and obviously some other people were you know becoming more and more aware of it.

And as time went by did you feel that you had healed from what had happened? Yeah I did. You know there was kind of after you know the discovery and the omission you know we went through, I went through, we went through a very probably the toughest you know two or three months of my life where she was kind of ambiguous about who she wanted to go with. I get that that was like pure torture emotionally right.

And just to have everything kind of you know right in front of my face was an additional factor. But the thing that needed to happen was you know her to be removed from this guy because she was still sitting right there. And so you know after and I'll get to you know a little later but he was basically fired.

And after that happened that's when the healing actually started. You know it kind of my initial feeling was just thank God that you know a this guy's gone and b my wife seems to like have made us like a definite decision right. He had kind of moved on to his next serious girlfriend and he kind of like I was like good you know forget about my wife right.

And so she kind of accepted that it had ended and that's when healing actually started. And to be honest just my overwhelming emotion was just kind of like to be grateful that I had this opportunity to reconcile. And it wasn't this like let me go run off with this guy right.

And she was like I choose you. I'm an idiot. You know I want to do whatever it takes to you know make this up to you.

I was like I was just grateful. So I don't know if I was really even thinking about my own healing. Definitely was you know went through some periods of you know anger and a lot of shame and stuff.

Yeah it was it got started after you know he had left. And you know I think there was some hypervigilance definitely for for the next year to two. I mean you know I answered the phone a few times and you know be like a male you know person from who is this right.

It was like kind of for a while there was it was probably not not that great. But you know I mean that's kind of to be expected. Were there any particular things that you did actively to try and heal through that process once you decided to try and make it a go together.

Yeah I mean the obvious thing like I think everybody sort of does is you know let's do couples therapy. So you know for for you know at least two three four months there we we were you know going to couples therapy working through it. Just rebuilding kind of a relationship rebuilding the marriage.

So it was it was I had a pretty serious motorcycle crash the weeks prior to finding out. So I also kind of had to you know rethink my priorities. So just that was another thing just focussing on the marriage and strengthening the relationship and addressing you know the identifying the causes.

And then trying to address those causes. So you know I think a lot of people may relate to like the their their spouse kind of blaming them for some aspect of their personality or whatever or what they were doing you know. And we needed to really kind of figure that out.

What what what actually were the factors in this and then address those. So definitely worked on that and the next year too actually was a it's kind of like a renaissance of our marriage because just so many things improved after that. That sounds really good.

And you you're absolutely right. It's one of those things where one of the first things that you can really do to try and move through these kind of situations is to separate the facts from the the things that your brain is telling you is happening. Really sort of because you can only control a limited number of things.

And there are many things that happen to us in life that unfortunately we just don't get to control. And so aimlessly trying to manipulate them change them hope or wish that they will improve in some way you know is a pretty fruitless exercise. So being able to separate those things out to help you move forwards a very positive step for definite.

Okay so what about more recently because obviously a number of years have passed now and where are you at the moment? Yeah this really wasn't anything that crossed my mind too much honestly for about 15 years. So you know I mean the first year too I mean it was definitely more kind of on my mind and but I was able to get the feeling that I could trust her again after you know about a year or so. And really it didn't really factor too much.

But you know over the years our kind of marriage has waxed and waned in terms of you know our intimacy levels and our you know being connected. And recently you know maybe about a year ago and this has probably been going on for a while but I just started to sort of really notice like this sort of just I feel like a lack of spark right just like a yeah there wasn't that like passion that I was you know hoping for you know. And I just wanted to you know I kind of just felt like we could have a better relationship.

So what changed for you? It was just a general feeling like my wife wasn't really being very affectionate. She you know she was working a lot more. She's got her own business that she's really working hard at.

I just you know just got this feeling like we're not you know we're missing something. I don't know what it was. It's just kind of this I don't know midlife or something.

But I ended up you know I saw this mini series on HBO. It's called Scenes from a Marriage. I don't know why I watched this but I watched it in private because I felt awkward watching it with her.

You know anything related to affairs I just feel kind of awkward like you know turn it off right. But in private I kind of just there's something you know about this that you know infidelity stuff that maybe it's like a insecurity thing where I want to you know watch it right. So I watched this thing and it was really kind of triggering.

You know it was about a guy that gets cheated on by his wife and that really kind of made me feel insecure and I think want to sort of take steps to improve you know our marriage. And I told my wife I'm like you know I feel like you know you know watch this mini series and feel kind of insecure. And I also feel like you know our marriage is sort of you know not like where it could be and I know you would you've always kind of expressed this desire that I'm more you know I guess for lack of a better word touchy-feely because I'm definitely not that type of person but she she likes that.

But I kind of was like you know I can change right but it just kind of feels weird to just change all of a sudden without like notifying the person because then they're like what's going on right. So we had this conversation and I was like can we be more like I'm going to try to be more you know I guess touchy-feely is that okay and I don't want you to think it's weird and she's like god man I love that right. So we started doing more of that and one of the other factors was I told her I was like I think they're you know one of the reasons why maybe I have this block is because there's some latent resentment about your affair and maybe if we talk about it you know we can kind of close that more for me or like have more closure because we're looking at it from a long distance and it'll be different this time we're not as charged emotionally and so on and so forth.

So I had and it's also from you know this insecurity it was almost like I went right back to right after her affair and it was like I had created this long list of questions to ask her about it and that was this we did that and I don't think that was helpful. Did it shock her? I told her I wanted to ask these and you know it was like I want to do this because I think it'll actually improve our relationship so she was like open to it. I think she was a little wary probably you know obviously uncomfortable but yeah that kind of led to to the next thing and things just kind of snowballed kind of from there.

So what is it that you're struggling with most? I mean you mentioned that you've almost like you've been stockpiling these questions for the last 17 years certainly 15 of the 17 years and do you think that's something that's been gradually going on all the time or is that something that you just shut the door to 15 years ago pretended it wasn't there and this show that you saw has almost been the key that's unlocked that door? Yeah I wasn't thinking of any questions during those 15 years. There has been you know slight you know sort of the background thought you know to it over that time but nothing really to cause it to be you know brought to the surface. So yeah this kind of you know desire to ask for these questions and I hadn't been thinking of these questions right like it just but at this point I was like you know I kind of want to just double check that I know all the details correctly and there's this fear that maybe I didn't know everything.

Had anything else changed around a similar time? Was there anything different in your sort of work or your with your children or or any other lifestyle thing with your business and anything else that sort of or was it really just do you think this trigger from the show that kind of snowballed rolling? I think it I think it was it really just this this show that triggered it and this kind of you know mistakenly mistaken thought that like talking about it more would like make our relationship better and I'm not saying that's that that's not the case with some people but I think for me it wasn't really the greatest idea. It just brought up a bunch of painful memories but yeah I don't I don't really know what yeah I think it really was the show yeah. So how has it affected other things in your life? Has it affected your your family beyond yourself and your wife with your kids or anything like that? Yeah so we did have our first child like a couple years after the affair and we now have three so they're kind of in sort of elementary middle school.

They definitely have picked up on something going on and actually my wife did tell our older daughters in kind of like a surface way they kind of know what's happening because they're like you know what's you guys are fighting and you know acting strangely and what's going on right. So definitely it's affected the kids in in kind of that sense and they're you know obviously worried that you know mom and dad you know are having this issue and what does that mean. Also it's really affected my work because it's hard for me to concentrate with you know it's kind of this whole thing sort of triggered you know intrusive thoughts, compulsions to go on online forums you know post things, ask questions, how are people you know getting over this kind of thing and meanwhile it's just like I'm not working right and my situation is I work from home on my own boss.

It is important that I do my job but it's like I do have it's like this sort of flexibility if I want to focus on the wrong thing. So it's yeah it's affected that for sure and then just like my overall stress and anxiety levels so that kind of went way up. Have you been doing anything differently to try and help cope with that or anything to sort of try and get through that this time around? Yeah you know I've been I mentioned the online forums and those are kind of like a double-edged sword.

You I think if your goal is reconciliation you definitely don't want to go on kind of like the general purpose infidelity forums or just the general purpose relationship forum because there's a lot of emotion there. Oh yeah and they're that most of them are not supportive of reconciliation. So I definitely did go I figured that out in the early days.

I was like I'm not posting here again right and I sought out supportive forums of people that whose goal was to reconcile. So that was key because you know when you go off to these other point you just get shamed and it's like you just feel like a piece of crap after like you made the wrong decision like you know you know alpha man wouldn't have done you know so on and so forth. Just doesn't make you feel good.

I mean that was a real setback I think in the early months. It's just like you come away with all these things and you bring it home and then it's like turns into anger at you know at my spouse. So but then later I did figure out the better forums and you know even those kind of here and there I don't think were beneficial because they would lead me to think about certain questions and then I would kind of sit with those but it was helpful.

So I'd say the forums but sort of the reconciliation-based ones and then I sought out you know a couple like different therapists because I just kind of wanted to you know see if I could find a therapist that really kind of clicked for me and so I kind of just lined up you know two or three therapy and I didn't go back to the first one. I ended up staying with the second two alternating. Maybe yeah so that you know you got to kind of try on some different therapists you know and see how those sort of work and I think one of them really helped me out more so than any of the other ones.

So yeah that's another thing. So you mentioned that your approach this time you know with hindsight it was maybe not the best. It didn't get you the best results in terms of how to move forward.

With that in mind now is there something that you would have done differently or what does the future look like from this point onwards for Mike? Yeah I don't know. I definitely don't think I should have just gone asking her a bunch of questions again because it doesn't you know at the end of day I mean our life is good right now. She's not the same person that she was 17 years ago.

There's really no I mean even if you know I figured out some little fat disturbing new thing right. Oh you lied about that. I mean it just doesn't really affect the current day and it doesn't it's you know like oh you lied about this so I'm gonna blow up our whole marriage 17 years later with three kids.

It just doesn't make sense and I don't you know I was mistaken in thinking that just you know just going out with all these questions would help anything. It just made it worse. It just it just brought up memories and feelings that sort of just snowballed.

So I don't I don't think I would have. I actually just wouldn't have brought it up. I would have tried to self-soothe which is kind of where I am now because it really just led to this just kind of sort of weird addiction with consuming this infidelity related content every single place I could find it and it's just it's hard for that not to come out and sort of disrupt your relationship.

It's easy to draw parallels. Right so I don't think I would have done that to begin with because it just fuelled just a whole lot of you know what if thinking and and you know just do I really know the whole story you know and yeah that it was probably it was not if I had to do it again I would have yeah not not sort of approach. Yeah I think as well when you when you have these thoughts you know running through your mind and they start to become embedded in that way and then you just seek evidence to try and support them and you can trick yourself into thinking you're wanting the answers but all you're actually doing is trying to reinforce them in some way and of course it just doesn't resolve itself and it could be a really really challenging to overcome.

Yeah yeah and people put stuff in your mind that you haven't thought about before in these forums like you know I'll post something and they're like oh you're at plan b right and then I got I went off there's a full tangent with her about like you know I feel like I'm plan b for like weeks that was the issue right and it was like a new issue every single time it's always fuelled by someone's comment that I was like oh I see you know and it's just like no I'm actually not plan b like she married me to begin with and and this guy was probably plan b way more more than I am but it's like you just kind of convince yourself of these things and it's just so it can be so damaging yeah. Absolutely so what's what's next for you Mike what's what's the what's the future look like for? Yeah um the future I think looks pretty bright um I really feel like the past month or two um has really you know shown signs of of coming out of this um it was almost just like a another sort of it's almost just like being right back after the affair it just takes it you know I think maybe a year or so is very common at least to get over the worst parts of this and I think just we're kind of seeing this here where I'm sort of coming out of it you know I'm learning to self-soothe I'm kind of I've learned several ways to reframe things think about things in a different way look for the positives so I'm really kind of you know I'm seeing this kind of again fading into the but hopefully this time with more closure the I definitely felt like you know the first time around I sort of maybe stopped some things away right my goal was just you know get her back at all costs right yeah that you know that that did work but you know some things just were not put away I don't think properly so I mean in that sense this this could be I think you know our relationship could actually be better than ever at this point because I've stuck with you know our intimacy is vastly improved versus a year ago just our emotional connectedness you know her feeling you know like I'm attracted to her more so yeah I'm very hopeful for the future and I think we have you know something that's that's can you know last for for many years to come yeah excellent well thank you ever so much for sharing your story Mike I'm sure it'll be very useful to many of those people listening and and yeah I wish all the best for you as well all right yeah thanks thanks Luke good to talk I have absolutely no doubt that what we've listened to today will have resonated with many of you something I see all too often are situations whereby people go through something like infidelity and they choose to stay which is an amazing thing to do it's an amazing thing to have that belief and that hope and that trust in their partner that they can still rebuild their relationship after they've been betrayed of course there's a risk that when diving into something like that through the fear of loss through uncertainty through a belief that it's just the easiest option or perhaps through lack of understanding that facing your fears and working through all of these things might create something you just never expected instead we tend to just push this stuff away we don't deal with it and just move on as if you know like like it's just been forgotten about then in the situation like Mike's 15 years later it resurfaced a complete in a completely unexpected way Mike's options now are pretty much the same as they were first time around but life is what you make of it and choosing to step outside of comfort zone with intimacy to be more open to having conversations like this will really serve him well I have absolutely no doubt if you'd like to share your story on a future episode then send me a message contact details are in the show notes as per usual that's all for today speak to you next week take care.