69. Intimacy After Infidelity: Under the Sheets with Sex Expert, Lee-ann Cordingley

Intimacy after infidelity can feel terrifying. When trust has been shattered and emotional safety is compromised, physical closeness may be the last thing you want, or the one thing you crave but fear. In this episode, I sit down with certified sex coach Lee-ann Cordingley to dive into one of the most taboo topics in the infidelity recovery journey: sex after betrayal.

Together, we explore how emotional and physical intimacy are deeply intertwined, and what it really takes to feel safe, seen, and satisfied again, whether you're staying in your current relationship or starting anew. Expect a mix of deep insight, practical tools, and surprising self-discoveries.

Key Takeaways:

• Desire after betrayal is possible, but it requires rebuilding safety, trust, and self-connection first.

• Learning to trust your body again is key: start small, notice the glimmers, and listen to the whispers.

• Communication about sex must be ongoing, intentional, and safe; schedule regular check-ins.

• Consent and boundaries are not just verbal; they’re physical, emotional, and ever-evolving.

• Intimacy starts with you: self-pleasure, self-awareness, and self-kindness lay the foundation for reconnecting with others.

💬 Reflection Questions:

Have you struggled to reconnect physically after betrayal? What small shift or idea from today’s episode could help you take a step forward?

Connect with Luke:

• Website: www.lifecoachluke.com

• Instagram: @mylifecoachluke

• Email: luke@lifecoachluke.com

Join the After the Affair community at www.facebook.com/groups/aftertheaffaircommunity

Episode Transcript:

The After The Affair podcast with me Luke Shillings is here to help you process, decide and move forward on purpose following infidelity. Together we'll explore what's required to rebuild trust not only in yourself but also with others. Whether you stay or leave I can help and no matter what your story there will be something here for you.

Let's go! Hello and welcome to the After The Affair podcast. I'm Luke Shillings your host and you're listening to episode number 69. Yes that's 69.

I've saved this one because this week we're talking to sex expert Leanne Cordenly. Now this conversation was a little bit tough actually. I felt uncomfortable at times which is quite strange given the topic that I deal with and the kind of conversations I have with people all the time.

So let's get straight into it and I hope you enjoy. Hello Leanne and thank you for joining us today on the After The Affair podcast. Hi Luke.

And it's great to have you here. Would you like to share a little bit about yourself, what you do and... Sure absolutely. So thank you for having me first off.

I am a certified sex coach. I think I'm the only certified sex coach in the East Midlands actually and I help people, generally people in relationships but single people as well. And I help them explore elements of their pleasure.

So there might be a lot of things that can potentially impact somebody's pleasure. Trust issues, betrayal issues, being one of them. So I work with people generally on a one-to-one basis or in a couple's scenario or more than a couple if that's how the relationship style is.

In person and online. So what was it that, yeah because it's not the most obvious of job roles like you say, you're probably the only certified sex coach in the area that you work within. At what point did you think that's what I want to do, I want to become a sex expert? Well in my other hat I'm also an experienced yoga teacher.

So I've been on my own yoga mat for more than 20 years and I've been teaching yoga for about 10 years as well. And I kind of come at my yoga teaching from more a pleasure-based perspective really. So lots of people would come to my classes and they might have unhelpful feelings like stress or anxiety as well as you know physical discomforts as well.

But my classes would be quite light-hearted, we would have a lot of fun with them. Sometimes I'd you know just play games because I'm a children's yoga teacher as well. So sometimes I'd quite you know turn a yoga class for adults into a game.

And I just know that with my passion for anatomy physiology and the nervous system, nervous system responses are a biggie for me. So stress hormones can be quite damaging in the body which I'm quite sure you're aware. But the fact of the things are is that pleasure hormones can sometimes work in the opposite way.

But if you're in that space or if you're in that you know that you know sitting in the mud with an unhelpful thought or feeling, it's quite difficult to get to the pleasure. So I've kind of come to get it from a two-pronged attack. Wow okay interesting.

So with regards to the yoga, I'm just thinking were you experiencing, were there many people coming to yoga who were self-judging? Yeah absolutely lots of people would come and be very kind of quite self-conscious. You know newcomers to yoga you know they would go straight to the back, they didn't want people looking at them. Very self-conscious from a body perspective and could be quite self-judgemental as well.

You know really beating themselves up if they couldn't touch the toes or things like that. But that's not really what it's about. So that is a quality that I see in that it's kind of in common with yoga students as well as sex coaching clients and it's quite tough.

Yeah I can imagine. The confidence that we require particularly when it comes to our own self-body image and I think everybody has some judgement about their own image in terms of how they feel it within their own body and how they perceive other people to judge their own body. Usually those perceptions are way off but the fact that they still exist is very very real and of course you take that into the privacy of the bedroom and well everything's there.

It's you know do we have sex with the lights off? You know it's like what is it that's still and I can really see this or the correlation between that at least that aspect of it. I'm sure there's others as well of course. So I'm thinking with many of the people that I work with and many of the people I know listening to the podcast of course have experienced betrayal and whether they are trying to stay in the relationship where the betrayal happened and reconnect with their partner or that they have maybe that has now gone past they've separated moved on and they're now forming new relationships.

How do they you know where intimacy is a really sensitive thing for an individual and when you've been betrayed then of course you're left well it's about as vulnerable as most people can get. At least you know what at least when there's a deeper connection okay it's one thing going out and maybe having like a one-night stand but when you're actually starting to rebuild a relationship and rebuild that trust then what happens you know behind closed doors in the bedroom so to speak is a very delicate topic and you know and it's interesting that infidelity is quite taboo you know it's not something that we go and have a conversation about on the street. Likewise sex is kind of the same you know generally speaking I wouldn't have a conversation about sex with my mum for example you know there are certain topics that are just helped that are more guarded than others so when we're coming into new relationships and these topics aren't well spoken about how do you help people break those barriers down so they can become more comfortable? Yeah absolutely I mean there's this as you rightly point out there's such a massive correlation between emotional intimacy and physical intimacy and whether a person chooses to remain in a relationship or start a new physical relationship the person who has been betrayed can have huge issues about both emotional intimacy and physical intimacy and they're so closely interlinked so having a trust issue could present in a number of different ways and it's important to know at this stage I'm not a therapist so you know what I do is not a therapy it's you know this is where we are now where do we want to get to so working through those elements of I suppose we could call them either stress or trauma after a betrayal we've got to go really slowly you know and one of the things and the other thing to mention as well is the other side of the coin if somebody chooses to remain in a relationship with a person who has been the betrayer if that's the terminology we use they're gonna have their own challenges with it aren't they? Absolutely yeah it's a very unique position to be in from both perspectives.

Absolutely because the betrayer might have guilt or remorse or things like that and the body keeps score forgive me but I can't remember the name of the author of the book I think it might have been Peter Levine the body keeps score. So these kind of things these big deal things can actually stay in the body if we don't process them properly so obviously you might want to seek therapy for having that kind of an experience but the way that it can present for lots of people and I'm gonna use I'm gonna use almost like a caricature so I'm going to talk about a female who's been betrayed so she might be remaining in the relationship and she then you know it might take them a little while to get back to finding physical intimacy and the brain is a powerful powerful thing so flashbacks ghostings or did you do that with them? Did this happen in that way? As soon as you have an unhelpful thought like that boom that's it you're in your head and you're out of your body so it can be quite difficult to remain in touch with your pleasure sensations or you know physical sensations which is going to interrupt with any orgasmic potential. If it's a guy or somebody who's the proud owner of a penis then you know that might even present in erectile problems so if it's if it's a guy if we're talking about heterosexual relationship might there might be a struggle having penetrative sex if the guy doesn't feel able to trust the woman.

So there's a whole host of different ways that it can affect both emotionally and physically in the body so it's really really stripping back and getting right back into very very base level elements of consent. Again a lot of what I see and from my personal experience as well is certainly in the earliest early days for me is that imagination of having imagining your partner with somebody else and then like you say like you listed the kind of judgments you have about that it's like well was that sex better was it different what was it that they gave and provided that I didn't and you know was it because I wasn't skilled enough or experienced enough or was I too selfish or was I you know all of these quick judgments that again are often completely not completely but they're not anywhere near as realistic they're just that our brain creating all this isn't these stories to try and well seem to end up beating ourselves up and often the case is like you say that there's the connection between the two people that can make the sex or the intimacy much more significant and much more close and connected whereas if it might not actually be about the exact behaviour of the physical act it might be just the connection that that person is having with the affair partner in that moment whether that's being driven by a genuine love building whether it's something more along the lines of limerence a bit of an infatuation a short-term almost like a honeymoon type period that you get any of all relationships of course where you're you're sort of stimulated in all areas which is then naturally going to lead on into the bedroom there's not actually a direct reflection of the physical act of sex with the affair partner versus the physical act of sex with your own partner there's a definite certainly from what I've seen there's definitely a difference there and a lot of that it's just down to that connection so if you haven't got that trust if you haven't got that feeling of safety and security with your partner then yeah your ability to perform arguably for a guy like you say it's hard dysfunction or you know just really not being able to get into this when your things and for a woman I mean I don't know I'd love to sort of hear your thoughts on this but I've heard this phrase before and this doesn't just apply to infidelity this is probably more in the marriage state of to-do list sex and where maybe one partner has got a higher sex drive than the other which is always going to be the case there's always going to be some variation I've been in relationships both on either ends of the scale and it's always fascinating I find it that if if I was in a relationship with somebody with let's say a lower sex drive than me then I would have this underlying belief that well if they just had sex more everything would be all right it would feel better but then I've also been in a relationship where I've had the lowest sex drive and actually I'm like I don't want sex this much you know it's like it becomes overwhelming and it's interesting that we always believe that it's a bit like the grass is always greener you know we always believe that the more or less would be better depending on what our individual requirements or desires are in that moment so to speak and I'm just wondering how when we we link the relationship between trust and physical intimacy how do we because like you say we've got that imprint in our body where like you said the body keeps score we've been hurt by the betrayal we're now feeling this imprint in our body and we're not really consciously aware of it because we're all in our heads like you say but the body's still saying hang on now I'm not letting you go you know I'm not I'm this isn't happening now and you spoke about actually like helping the purse helping the client just slow down what does that actually look like you know one partner wants sex the other partner is feeling all of the things that we've just spoken about that resistance that body keeping the score how do we actually start what are some of the steps that could be taken to help somebody rebuild that step by step yeah sure I think it's really important to note that everybody's libido is as unique to them as their fingerprint you know and there are so many factors that are involved in our motivation for having sex our you know the reasons that we want to have sex having our desire patterns so lots and lots of things can impact that so stress is going to be a factor some people if they are feeling stressed out it's their go-to to have some kind of sexual contact either with a partner or with themselves it's like you mean like a dopamine hits it's like just yeah it's that scratch so just yeah yeah and but then other people who are feeling effects of stress it's the last thing they're gonna want to do and then couple that with the physical effects in in the body that we you know be covered earlier on it's I think for regaining trust and motivation for sex it really has to come down for communication so whether this is a relationship that is you know remaining or with a new relationship if there's someone that's being betrayed communication is even more key and also consent so talking about as I've just mentioned you're talking from a heterosexual female perspective having sex with a man you can think of it it's quite invasive you know you're letting somebody into your body and obviously on the flip side you know if you're a guy you're going into somebody's body that's that's what happens with penetrative sex of course which isn't the only sex and so what's really important is if you mentioned the the kind of the routine the chore sex the tick the box you know I mean now I should have sex because they want to which I think is quite common particularly for women and so I think it's really important to get back to elements of consent right and the partner but for both genders of course the partner at any point can say can we have a time out can we pause can we just can we just take a step back a minute because maybe I'm having a flashback or maybe something doesn't feel quite great at the moment can we step back I let you just step back you know disengage sex cuddle talk have a drink you know just reconnecting on that emotional level and like I say this this goes for a partnership that is rebuilding or a new partnership because if you go into a new partnership you're quite aware that your new partner was betrayed in their previous relationship you're quite aware of that so I think it's being absolutely crystal clear as as the the person who's been betrayed crystal clear in your communication and also having the opportunity to communicate in that way with your partner yeah that's what I was wondering I was wondering about the like the timing in which that could occur like the most effective because okay I was I was driving home with my friend the other day and we were just chatting and I say the it started raining and I needed to use my window wipers and pull the lever and sure enough I run out of water or it's like just on the edge of like running out of water on the screen I'm thinking yeah anyway okay well I need to do that when I get home and then sure enough I get home completely forget about it because it's no longer in my mind it's no longer my focus point focal point and then the next day I go out I put my window I forgot about it again okay so you know the idea in you know in my mind in that situation the most logical thing to do would be to pull up to the nearest petrol station and just do it there and then and have that come have that conversation or that act so I'm thinking like in the because sex is for many people it's not an easy thing to talk about at all you know and particularly when we've come to things like desire or there's so much judgement it's like well what I like am I comfortable sharing that with my partner what if they think I'm whatever you know they're weird you know I'm a bit creepy or a bit this or a bit that or maybe I'm a bit boring or you know either either either end of the spectrum so like logically my brain is saying well solve the problem up front have the conversation first somehow get through that and then at least when it comes to the act of sex and if things maybe don't go as you thought that they might I know whether it's a performance issue or however you want to describe that it doesn't go in the way that maybe we didn't expect it or anticipated then you can support each other in a way because you've already had the conversation that seems like the most logical approach in my own mind however I think for a lot of people the reality is that conversation doesn't happen the sex happens it's either fulfilling or or let's assume it's not fulfilling or there's a performance issue or whatever it is and then there's just shame rather than thinking oh I know now's an appropriate time to discuss it what went wrong how can we resolve this for the future actually it's more likely to be rollover cover yourself up go to sleep or storm out or whatever that depending on the scenario so it seems like at both ends of the scales it's really tough so I suppose the question is how do we help people do sure I think that for both I'm talking about two scenarios here one scenario is the recovering relationship and the other scenario is new relationship but same for both and I advocate to all of my clients that making a regular check-in part of your routine part of your habit yeah you might go to the gym three times a week or you might I don't know go go shopping on a Saturday afternoon whatever establishing that as one of the tenets of your relationship you know one of the pillars of your relationship is that once a week once a fortnight or something we will talk about sex and it doesn't have to be just this is terrible this is terrible and I know for a lot of the listeners now that's very likely gonna be their reality but it's not always terrible so you can open it up with how's it going how's sex been for you this week babe did you did you like it when we did XYZ did you like it when we stopped in the woods or whatever whatever it is and this wasn't working for me actually or I felt uncomfortable when blah blah blah and because of course when we go when we're in a sexual scenario we don't suddenly become mute so the word no is or stop or pause or something like that they are you know they're great things to have and they and they're great a lot of people don't use them right yes so if you're in a if you're in a situation again I'm talking about heterosexual dynamics but of course there are lots of other dynamics but if there if you know there's a lady and she's having sex with her partner and all the time she thinks I'm I'm out of my body I've gone into my head I've gone into this what if I'm too skinny what I'm too fat and what if they did this with this person straight into the head they're disconnected from the body and they don't whether and they want to stop but they don't feel able to say it happens a lot it does happen a lot so the choice is to stop have a falling out to continue or to have a conversation about it you know outside of the bedroom but in the in the situation where they continue and they choose not to use their big red button stop then they can feel ashamed because they've gone they've kind of they've almost betrayed their own body the body didn't want to continue with the sex the body didn't want to have sex and I'm not obviously consent is a very very big deal and I'm not talking about anything that's non consensual and you know in other terms but but you're not working in in a way that is in line with how your body feels because we all have this level of intuition don't we we kind of know and I've got if something feels right for us in that moment you know we know if we're hungry we know if we need to sleep we know if we need a wee and so we're not listening and we're denying what our body is actually saying that it wants then we can we can start to lose that connection with ourselves yeah hundred percent I think that that plays out in all areas you know well beyond the bedroom this this idea that we like you say yeah this is this coming back to that analogy is earlier but the score is the body keeps score of things that is it likes or dislikes and you get you cognitively try to overcome that all the time I should be this I should be that this is how it should be and we start showing ourselves all the time yeah our body's sort of like really resisting it and making us feel that discomfort but it's almost like there's a there's a gate in our neck sort of saying no not gonna let that come through gonna block that but pretend it's not there and we all walk around like talking heads and we're just still walking heads and we're just this this all in our heads literally you know it seems like an overused analogy but that really is the truth for most people in most situations absolutely one of the things I tell people with when it comes to rebuilding trust generally speaking you know when when trust is broken we put all of the onus initially on the other person it's all about the other person breaking our trust and although that is true in most cases what becomes very apparent quite quickly is the lack of trust that we then start to form or recognise in ourselves because we now start questioning our own judgement so of course to help rebuild that trust then you need to really get to know yourself like really well really understand what it is that you want what you desire you mentioned desire before and understand yourself on a level that isn't isn't necessary for other people to get involved at that stage and once you're comfortable with that I'm talking on emotional level trust and relationships in the minute here rather than sex specifically if I'm interested in the correlation once you once you get confident and start to trust yourself then to be able to go out into the world and trust other people becomes way easier because you are open to it and you're not guarded in the same way because you know if you don't trust yourself you walk around double-checking everything we've spoken about like communication and obviously you've mentioned desire but even as I'm sat here thinking it's quite interesting this because you know I'm sort of like I'm feeling an element of discomfort just because of the topic which is kind of funny really you know thinking about the topics I talk about they are very taboo topics and I don't feel any discomfort talking about infidelity and betrayal partly because I've done a lot of it and I've done a lot of exploration and I understand myself on that level very very well it's almost like now we introduce this sexuality element I'm like how well do I really know myself like how do I know really what I desire sexually I'm really maybe I have I've played the same pattern out for years or maybe I people pleased a bit or maybe I don't know and it's like yeah I don't know myself maybe as well as I've got should or could so if I don't know myself how can I even begin to start to you know relay and communicate those expectations or requests desires how we want to look at that to others so just be interested in what your hmm take on yeah no I this there's loads in there to unpack actually I think we live in an age where there is so much information available to us and there's we are very very interested I believe in why we do the things we do the psychology of why we do what we do and you've just said yourself you know am I people pleasing am I doing this and we sometimes can have a tendency to overanalyze again being in our heads you know being in this in this cognitive function so one of the things that I would hugely advocate for anybody who finds them myself included I'm an overthinker so hugely advocate for anybody who considers themselves to be an overthinker or anybody really and to get back into the body so you might be familiar with with the term semantics it's just it's the felt senses the felt self the body the description of emotions that's that's right yeah in a nutshell that's how that's what it is so getting back in touch with your felt sense rather than your intellect sense so you can know something to be true because you know it with your brain you can know something to be true because you know it because it feels good in your body so a simple exercise if you will think of a food that you really really don't like right so food that you really it really gives you the ick it's it's never going on your plate that kind of thing can you feel that in your body where do you feel it so some people may feel that in their stomach some people might have kind of almost visceral reactions of like gagging reflect yeah exactly yeah so you know what that feels like you know that that is a no whereas if you think of what's your favourite food something that will make you salivate when you you know just thinking about it wish I had that on my plate right now you're grinning from ear to ear yeah so where do you feel that in your body is there anywhere that you feel yeah definitely yeah I mean there's initially there's the I can literally feel the salivating like in my mouth there's definitely not there's like a and there's and it's much more of a tingle and a lightness around my jaw and the upper part of my throat and then like a warmth I suppose probably in my in my torso if you like there's a general overall thing it's like yes I'm thinking of like initially I went with cake and then I moved to like pie and then and then this is an example of this is an example of semantics like learning what is my body's reaction so you can know in your head that you like cake or pie you can know this in your head but actually your body is knowing this so you mentioned about how to trust your what you want what you desire what how you feel this is a great place to start because our body will give us these messages and I'm really I'm talking from a yoga teacher hat right now but and our body will give us these messages if something is a yes if something is a no if something is a no we generally perhaps might feel a contraction and what I mean about that you know like when you're cold you're not all drawing you right into your centre you know your centre line your midline you're keeping everything in something annoys you or if something disgusts you you might have that same reaction your clothes you tight hard that kind of thing if something feels appealing to you a beach a blue sky a blue you know a sunny blue sky music and already I'm talking with my hands my body's feeling okay you know because that's where growth and change can happen is the open rather than the contraction and that's a perfect analogy to think of with what happens with our bodies with sex and again I'll use a hetero woman again as an example if I may if if a woman is not feeling like she wants to have sex what's going to happen you know I'm talking about anatomy and I hope the terminology is okay but talking about anatomy a vagina might not actually be lubricated naturally lubricated might feel quite tight some people might have issues with pain during sex because their body fitness there's something that's there that's you know really attracting them pushing them off and there might be a bit of a dissonance as well brain might be saying well actually I want to have sex my body isn't wanting to they could have a thing can happen for a man as well it's like a it's like a well I suppose it's a cognitive dissonance really is this there's one thing one one wanting or believing that it wants one thing and then the other the body in this case is saying how this doesn't feel right that's when we use that intuition gut feeling or how we want to describe that yeah yeah absolutely so to come back to your earlier question of how do we get to this it's quite often the body won't shout these things at you this example with the foods that was a shout yeah you've maybe you felt it in your body as a shout well quite often some of these things won't be a shout because our brains of can be quite loud they can be very very emphatic and not be switching you know the override switches on you know bodies like oh don't want to do this brain no we're cracking on we're gonna do this we start to almost turn the volume down on what the body is saying so the way to turn that volume up is just to start to notice when the body starts it might just be a whisper it might be a whisper and just notice it I'm one of the greatest ways to do that and of course I'm talking is talking to you from my yoga teacher hat drop into your body physical physical practises it might be a meditation practise being really still and quiet or focussing on your breath your brain will probably not like that your brain will probably say your knees itching you're uncomfortable move what we have for dinner tonight oh don't forget to buy carrot that kind of thing your brain will probably not want to be still but then you start to kind of when you move through it you start to be able to hear when the body starts to whisper at you and that whisper can start to turn up so then if you if you know those reactions in your body when you're when you're experiencing a no whether that's a shout or a whisper listen to it and you're starting to build trust in yourself it's starting to trust what your body is telling you because we are intelligent people you know every I'm sure your listeners are massively intelligent and I'm sure they've done a hell of a lot of research about this topic I like the idea of using the volume analogy so if we imagine like all the information that's available to us any given point is distributed throughout our body we think of like the 80-20 rule 80% of the information is actually in the body and 20% of it is in the head but when it comes to the speaker the bit where all the information comes out well 80% of it comes out the head and only 20% out the body so always in this like dichotomy almost where we're where all the information that we actually need to pay attention to is in the body yet we're actually allowing all the noise to come out of our heads literally who are speaking and ideas are thinking and really we need to just just offset that more intentionally I suppose so thinking about even even as you're talking about the the meditation I'm part of the men's coaching group and we meet weekly and at the beginning of every session we do like a grounding exercise you know we don't have a zoom you know there's usually half a dozen of us or so and we do a ground exercise for five minutes and every single time I forget what it was like to all of a sudden pay attention to oh my oh my shoulders are actually it crunched forward oh I've not really noticed how I was saddle or slightly leaning with a bit more weight to one side than the other and it's like is there anything my body needs right now yeah there's a bit of a something here I need to sort of just losing my shoulder or shake my arm and you know actually really paying attention to what the body is actually offering in that moment and like I say bringing it back to the breath allowing those thoughts to come in you know we'll hear for anybody who's done any kind of meditation one of the basic things that you learn to begin with is thinking about thoughts a little bit like clouds they're just passing by and you can allow thinking that they can come in you don't need to judge them and they can pass through and move on and then that's okay you might have these ideas oh I need to go to the shop so I need to do this for the kids so I need to do that and that's okay they can be there we're not we're not trying to get rid of them we're just going to allow them to to pass by and just offer ourselves that that moment that space and I think as well it doesn't take much you don't need to allocate huge quantities of time to do this in fact you can often do it as a secondary activity to some extent you can sometimes be even if you're out walking and you just you know if I run and I remember trying to actually almost like actively meditate while running and it was surprisingly effective you know I was able to just drop into this zone and just like just concentrate on what my body was feeling and concentrate on my breath and really paying attention to the sounds around me in the outside world and and it's just so you just feel so much more connected and so it's like you don't that that that cognitive dissonance that we just spoke about that that element where you've got like one two opposing thoughts or two opposing feelings they come together and then you can be much more intentional and you can actually then make decisions without feeling like you're fighting yourself absolutely yeah and I'm glad you made I'm glad you mentioned the running I also run for that reason and you know for some people that are listening they might hear the word meditation oh no that's not my bag it doesn't have to be it might be cycling it might be yoga it might be I don't know crafting or knitting or something that's you're really present in that moment and it and it you're not going to continue to do it if it doesn't feel joyous to you so my thing about talking about pleasure is noticing that and acknowledging that when we're talking about pleasure it's not just sexual pleasure so if we start to recognise the smaller pleasures that I and I like to use the you know we we use the term trigger all the time oh this is triggering me this is triggering me I like to kind of like flip the coin and what is causing a glimmer in me what's the glimmer you know it might be lacing your trainers up going out for a run it might be I don't know doing some crochet it might be doing a Sudoku or something like that what is giving me that glimmer and as soon as we start to notice those little tiny glimmers we can start to notice bigger glimmers turning the volume button up again and that might then come into what does my body need right now my body I feel like I would like a massage I'd like a sensation of touch that would be that would feel good in this moment that would be a big glimmer and then we can move on to you know maybe moving into sexual pleasure because this thing has to be really really incremental when we're recovering from such a tough time it has to be incremental you can't just jump back in with both welly boots and just just expecting the physical element of a relationship whether it's a continued relationship or new one it's going to be different because their brains are so powerful but then our nervous systems are also so powerful so perhaps putting that little bit of trust back into your sensations the glimmers the pleasures to start to increase that capacity for pleasure does that make sense it makes a lot of sense it does yeah and I think as you were talking earlier it was coming back up to me this you know we are kind of hardwired to pay attention to the negative we are you know and it makes sense because you can only become so dead it's like you know things can only get so bad whereas actually so that is pretty important from a survival perspective to avoid pain to avoid discomfort because you know it could be dangerous everybody speaking in the modern world that's not true but you know a couple hundred thousand years ago say for two tigers caves the dark no food all the things very very real and of course we're still running on that same kind of firmware we're still running on the same kind of software that we were many many thousands of years ago but more superficial things are affecting judgments so I think it's the only way to overcome that is to be very conscious about paying attention to the positive because it's very easy to notice the negative feelings like really easy like we don't have to do anything yeah because we don't like just nice and they're overwhelming and they take all of the space they feel they fill the space within our body and then there's like you have to be very very conscious to actually and I'm not saying that in the sense that it's a difficult thing it's just it's a choice yeah it's like you can like you say you offered me the thought of and I'm sure the listeners played along as well you offered me the thoughts of food that I like and the feeling was there instantly you know so it's not like we're not capable of it we can find the positive emotion now positive sensation very very quickly and very easily but if we don't consciously do it all we think about is that everything that can hurt us or we just we just don't like okay so just before we finish I wanted to just tie back up a couple of things we've spoken obviously about desire and we've spoken a little bit about consent and I think it certainly from my perspective it seems appropriate to tie that back in as well with like boundaries like when these things aren't met so I always have spoken quite a lot about boundaries on the podcast generally speaking from an emotional sense I'd just like to hear what your thoughts now you here help people with with boundaries in the sexual sense and well I would I would use one a similar kind of exercise to the to the food I think you know if you are if you are stipulating a boundary we're telling people how we want to be loved or shown affection to if that is crossed or breached we're going to feel that we're going to feel that closing that contraction that tightness so being able to establish boundaries especially in the sit scenario that you know a lot of your listeners are probably going to be in the boundaries have been breached in a you know what feels like and in a horrendous way so we need to reestablish those boundaries in a way that feels good for you so it's a really great thing just sit on your own and actually just consider well what is okay for me and if we're talking about the early stages of repairing a relationship or the early stages of a new relationship what is okay for me and for some people penetrative sex might be like absolutely not I I am not there yet right now I'm comfortable sat on the sofa with an arm around you or maybe right street right as far as I'm comfortable with yes and following and I think the tricky thing with boundaries generally is that it's very easy to have these ideas about what we might consider acceptable and then we might be able to recognise when it's crossed when the boundary has been violated but it's then very difficult to follow through on that commitment we made to ourselves to begin with because now the situation is like well it's like yeah I mean I'm so no nobody can see me here but I'm demonstrating the idea that I'm trying to speak but nothing's coming out sure sure you know and so and I get I think that brings that loosely ties back to how where we started with the sort of confidence okay we were talking about body confidence at that point but again that confidence in yourself and like like Leanne just said is like making sure that you are clear on where you're what they even what they are because actually don't sit down and think about it themselves like what actually is the point that this is okay this is not okay and sometimes you might not even be aware of that until yeah something's actually happening oh oh I didn't even know I was in the in the flipside as well you know you might say absolutely no penetrative sex off the menu I don't want to do that I don't you know that's not okay for me you might have a scenario where that just happens and you think oh that's a nice surprise but you know obviously everything must be always enthusiastically consensual obviously and so I mentioned about getting back into your body for you know sensations meditation for starting to listen to the glimmers and starting to find the things that feel pleasurable for you but in terms of boundaries and working out what actually feels good I can highly recommend journaling either finding a trusted trusted friend or a therapist or a counsellor or a coach and just working out and that brainstorming well is this okay you might have a yes no maybe list is this okay no not really is this okay yeah that's fine and having that kind of pen and paper for some people personally it works fantastically for me if I write something down I'm 100% gonna it's gonna stick better for me so that might be something really good to work for for your business and so establishing boundaries in your own mind and even combining the mindful aspect and the journaling aspect write something down is this a boundary close my eyes okay how does that feel how's that how does it feel like thinking about somebody stroking my neck yeah I'm feeling a bit like oh no that's clearly I said that's maybe that's a maybe or maybe it's a no so I don't know if that was if that answers your question it does it does perfectly yeah and I think it I think it ties in with all of the things that was discussed both in terms of trust in terms of self-confidence in terms of setting boundaries it's about you figuring out what is right for you first before you go out into the world okay there are going to be occasions like you said where something might happen that you haven't anticipated and you haven't expected so okay what I offer my clients in those situations where sometimes a situation arises that they haven't expected then what we look at doing is say okay well I'm gonna have a boundary for myself about how I'm going to deal with a situation that arises that I didn't expect even if I don't know what that situation is yet if I'm found in a position where all of a sudden I feel discomfort even though I wasn't expecting it and that's not like I've got a set number of I haven't got a set rule about how I'm going to handle this situation the situation itself is the fact that it was unexpected and start to say okay well in this case if I recognise that I'm just gonna give myself a moment maybe just gonna exit the room and give myself five minutes or whatever it is or just ask you know I just need to pause for a minute yeah whatever depending on the thing so even though you can't prepare for every individuality every individual possible scenario you can create like a catch-all for those moments when you haven't had the opportunity to think it through but you've bought yourself that time and space so that you can then go back and finally I'm set at the journal or one of the things I recommended a thought download which is very similar process that I talked about in the podcast and yeah and actually then start to get those things in line yeah yeah I mean everybody has access to a pause button regardless of the scenario you know you know that the old the old adage you know count to ten take a breath hit the pause button take a deep breath how does it feel your body does it feel good does it feel not good you can extend that pause you know and then you can make a better decision rather than being reactive if you're in a pause situation and the other thing I just kind of want to touch on for your listeners is the reaffirmation of physical boundaries as well so obviously we're talking specifically about sex really aren't we and that is a consensual breach of your physical boundaries okay so affirm your boundaries yeah and you know if we listen touching your arm you know touching your legs keeping your hands in contact with your body reaffirming your physical bodily boundary could actually be a useful exercise and you know whether listeners are recovering a relationship in a new relationship or they are on their own every single person is entitled to physical pleasure I'm talking I am talking about self-love I'm talking about masturbation reaffirm your pleasure boundaries what does it feel like because you can you can use your own you can use your own body to comfort yourself strokes hugs your genital stimulation whatever you want to call it it's there it's available for you and you deserve pleasure in your body and that is a great way to reaffirm those physical boundaries before you move on to a new relationship or before you make that decision to repair exactly yeah it really again it's reinforcing this idea of getting our own foundations in place first in all areas and then that gives us the confidence to or at least it plays a role in the confidence to then go out and start you know we at least we know our own limits and okay it doesn't mean that they're fixed forever it means that they we can adjust them over time we're not saying well that's how it is you know till my grave it's like no this is where I am right now and I get to reassess and modify those as and when I like but I'm doing it for a place of kindness for myself and love for myself and not because I'm feeling pressured or influenced or affected by any external thing or person yeah it's all about choice and because of what feels right yeah and also not not setting boundaries in a retaliatory manner okay yeah absolutely so repairing a relationship is you know it's sometimes probably harder than starting anew and perhaps and so it's not a punitive well I'm absolutely sure yeah but I think one of the problems people have in relationships is expecting them to be easy like actually there's obviously lots of pleasure and fun in relationships and you can form very good bonds but to think that we could go like six decades potentially with the same person and it all to be happy and roses the whole of the time is just an unrealistic expectation there are going to be peaks and troughs okay it's gonna look very different for very different people but when we have an expectation of what the perfect relationship looks like and how it should feel then the many time it falls short of that it feels like we failed or we're not doing good enough and that's when the negative emotions start to go I'd love to keep talking Leanne but we are gonna have to wrap it up I'm afraid so but before we go would you be able to share how people work with you what to do and all the things thank you and people can very easily find me on places like LinkedIn or Instagram I'm there under my name Leanne Cordingly which is also my website address L double E a double N Cordingly .co.uk which I'm sure you're putting show notes and so I work with both individuals or people in relationships on their own or in their in their relationship as well so if anybody if I can provide any support for recovering intimacy with a new partner or with a recovering partner then yeah that's like more than welcome to get in touch lovely well thank you ever so much for joining us I feel like I have lots more questions and maybe we'll do a second episode at some point if you're open to it but for now thank you very much thank you very much Lee thank you well there you have it we have successfully put one topic or taboo topic in bed with another and covered the complicated and sometimes frightening topic of sex particularly after infidelity where rebuilding that connection is such a difficult thing for many of us to do and it's a journey that we all have to navigate in some way shape or form whether that be with our existing partner or with a future one one of the things that I really took away from today's conversation with Leanne was how a lot of the work and methods and ideas that she uses to help her clients better understand their own bodies and understand their own wants and desires and needs mirror that of the emotional conversations that we've had so many times on the podcast over the last year and a half I think when we can recognise this common pattern in a variety of areas of our lives it helps them almost compound they add on top of each other literally in a sense that we can use these little bits these little bits that we've learned in one place and apply it to another and improve every area of our life based on everything that we've discussed in today's episode I have a question how can sex after infidelity be better than it was before what can you do what can you take away from today's episode to implement in your life to improve sex after betrayal so thank you thank you for joining me again on today's episode it's an absolute pleasure to have you here and I can't wait to speak to you all once again next week.