54. Divorce after Betrayal - Expert Perspectives with Charlotte Tweed

Divorce is never easy, especially after infidelity. Whether you're contemplating separation, already navigating legal waters, or simply trying to make sense of what’s next, this episode offers compassionate clarity. I am joined by Charlotte Tweed, a trainee family solicitor who brings both personal and professional insights into the emotional and legal journey of divorce after betrayal.

If you’re overwhelmed by fear, guilt, or uncertainty, this episode helps bring structure and reassurance to one of life’s hardest transitions.

Key Takeaways:

• What the UK’s no-fault divorce law really means for betrayed partners

• How early childhood divorce can shape long-term trust and relationships

• The emotional and financial pitfalls people face when rushing into decisions

• Practical steps to protect your future and your children during separation

• Why legal advice, emotional support, and clarity go hand in hand

💬 Reflection questions:

Have you considered divorce but felt paralysed by uncertainty? What’s holding you back from seeking advice?

Connect with Luke:

• Website: www.lifecoachluke.com

• Instagram: @mylifecoachluke

• Email: luke@lifecoachluke.com

Join the After the Affair community at www.facebook.com/groups/aftertheaffaircommunity

Episode Transcript:

The After The Affair podcast with me Luke Shillings is here to help you process, decide and move forward on purpose following infidelity. Together we'll explore what's required to rebuild trust not only in yourself but also with others. Whether you stay or leave I can help and no matter what your story there will be something here for you.

Let's go. Hello and welcome to the After The Affair podcast with myself Luke Shillings. You are listening to episode number 54 and I know I mentioned this probably last week but it's amazing this is Wednesday the 4th of October as you are listening to this was this episode is released which is one day after the one-year anniversary since the After The Affair podcast was launched.

So thank you to again to everybody who has come on this journey both with me and also for allowing me to be part of your journey and help you make the changes in your life and turn this unexpected unwanted event that is betrayal and infidelity into something much more powerful and much more useful going forward and I am very very appreciative that you're allowing me to do that. In fact I've received some emails and messages just in the last few weeks highlighting how much impact it has been having on individuals lives which is you know I can't lie it's a very rewarding feeling and it's just it's just amazing to know that it is having that impact and again thank you thank you for that. So this week I wanted to talk a little bit about divorce.

Although I obviously do have some experience with divorce I have witnessed it as a child with my own parents and of course I have been divorced I am divorced myself as well so I have been through the process. My personal experience has been although obviously a very challenging time of my life it involved a lot of identity change a lot of physical logistical financial and changes in all areas of my life in all honesty but I think because particularly my own divorce because it was clouded let's say in the experience of infidelity and the hurt and the pain that came with that in some ways the divorce itself felt more like a procedural thing than necessarily the pivotal negative experience for me as an individual and the reason I share that is a I'm not an expert on everything of course and even though I've experienced things in life and I definitely have a lot to say on these topics there's no question and sometimes I think it is useful to get the perspective from somebody who is an expert in that field so today that's exactly what I want to do. Allow me to introduce Charlotte Tweed she's a trainee family divorce solicitor from Pepperell Solicitor in Lincoln the city that I live and grew up in and she is here to share her unique perspective on this whole discussion around divorce.

As someone who's witnessed a breakdown of her own parents relationship at a young age Charlotte has dedicated her career to family law and specifically in the divorce cases so without further ado let's get into the conversation. Okay Charlotte so thank you ever so much for joining us today on the After The Affair podcast so I was wondering if you could perhaps let the listeners know who you are what you do and what led you to where you are now. Yeah of course I can so my name is Charlotte Tweed I'm a trainee solicitor in the Divorce and Finance team at Pepperell Solicitors.

I'm based across Lincoln and our Grimsby office and in terms of my current role I'm kind of three quarters way through my training I'm due to qualify in January and hope to qualify into the Divorce and Finance team so that's where I've been where I'm heading that's the that's the plan in terms of what's got me to where I am now. My parents separated when I was seven through evidence that was the kind of the background to it and that was always what led me to wanting to be a solicitor. I kind of grew up floating around a few different options and then as I got a bit older when I did my A levels I knew I wanted to do law and Divorce and Finance has always been my kind of plan.

I've dabbled in other areas and my heart just isn't in it so I always come back to Divorce and Finance it's where it's where my heart is it's where the background lies it's the reason I wanted to get back into or get into law and so yeah that's that's where I kind of am now and how I got to where I am. That's great thank you. So for anybody listening who isn't based in the UK Charlotte said that she lives and works in and around Lincoln which is actually where I'm from as well which makes a nice change because usually the people I am talking to are rarely even in the same country let alone in the same town so it makes a very pleasant change.

You mentioned that obviously you had experienced from a third-party perspective a breakdown in the relationship with your your mum and dad when you were younger when you were seven and obviously this is in some indirect way led you on some path into law and particularly sort of the family law and divorce and that side of things. Would you be okay to talk a little bit more about what that experience was like for you and and how you were affected as you grew up from that third party? It's interesting because many of the people that I speak to on the podcast and many of the people that come and we have these conversations with often have either experienced betrayal or infidelity directly either as they are the ones that have been betrayed or in some cases they're the ones that have been unfaithful but it's not so often that we get somebody on who has seen it from well a child's perspective quite literally. Yeah so I was I was seven and I've got a younger brother and he's three years younger so he was four.

We have conversations not often but often enough and kind of I still remember it very vividly and I remember my dad leaving and my brother doesn't remember anything and we very often have conversations as children our siblings I don't know what's better and I don't have the answer to that and I very often have conversations with clients when they say oh the children are going to get really wrapped up in it and I don't have the answer as to whether it's better to remember or not. It's interesting as well just diving quickly only because I had a similar situation so my parents also separated and divorced when I was young and I was four when my father left in a not dissimilar situation and it's interesting you're saying that the impact how it has affects different people at different ages because I have no real like conscious recollection recollection of the event itself at the age of four obviously I saw the impacts it had on me as I grew up but yeah just interesting to highlight. It is and we have conversations yeah quite quite a lot in terms of kind of the difference and I think it's probably impacted me more because I do remember it but in terms of kind of the relationship I'm the biggest daddy's girl in the entire world so it hasn't affected our relationship at all I'm so so close to my dad and my mum would hate me saying it but I'm closer to my dad than I am my mum he's one and truly my kind of biggest supporter in what I'm doing but it is it is something that I think it will stay with you and it certainly affected my my kind of relationship since I think I've always been I think struggle with trust a little bit I think it's something I've been growing up kind of in my own relationships you take a step back and think I don't tend to trust people I tend to always take the view of someone or what if you trust someone they're always gonna leave you one way or another and I think that that it comes back to you have to kind of look back to the root of the and the root of the problem but yeah I do think it's interesting to speak with and like you said the different age ranges and a lot of clients will say to me is it is it better to be younger is it better to be older I don't think the answer is there's a better I don't think there is a better time it's it's horrible no matter when it happens but I think it leads you in different paths and I'd like to think that I've turned what's happened into a positive and I always said I wanted to then be able to help others which I guess was then what put me on the path that it put me on so I mean it definitely is having a really great impact on the people that you now help as a result of sort of following that path but what has been the the cost of it to you I mean you you touched on how it's affecting your sort of your relationships your relationships and and you're now left in a place where you feel less easy to trust I mean what's behind that is that is it just a fear of things not working out yeah I think it's probably a little bit you grow up in a family and a little bit you kind of think if if that can happen in my family that can happen to anyone and I think it's just yeah impacted my my ability to kind of put my trust in of the people I think you just you've got that feel of people gonna people are gonna let you down one way or another and I haven't yet been proved otherwise but I probably just haven't met the right people to prove me otherwise we'll go with that so I like that I mean just out of interest of your parents they've both gone into other relationships or do they yes so my dad is still with the lady that essentially was unfaithful with and we have a brilliant relationship with her it's taken kind of a long time for my mum to get more over it but we have a brilliant relationship with my dad and my stepmom my mum is now in a relationship but only for about the last 80 years so it took her a lot longer she threw all of her energy into myself and my brother and focused on us for a very very long time and it was only when we got to the point that we were that bit older that I think she then kind of looked for something else but no they're both now in both now in relationships and we have we have both me and my brother have great relationships with with both sides which is lovely and yeah that is really nice when it when it can be like that because often these these things can lead in directions that you know that are unpleasant for everybody involved it's never just the two people in the sort of the primary relationship so thank you for sharing so could you briefly explain for those who are listening what a family trainee solicitor does and what your I mean I know you mentioned earlier you sort of divorce and finance but what does that look like for you yes so essentially kind of a family a family training as a whole obviously family law is split into various different areas so you've got kind of private law and public law so divorce and finance essentially is the area that I'm within so that encompasses what it says on the tin essentially divorce the aspects of divorce the divorce process and then the finance separation obviously comes with it they do come hand in hand but then they also do exist separately and so we tend to look at them as separate entities even if they are they do come hand in hand so I deal with everything that essentially comes with that in terms of the other areas of family you've got kind of private and the public children work so the other family trainees essentially touch on and so care work local authority or involvement with children private children which ends up being a direct kind of linking to divorce and finance obviously separating couples very often then have issues in terms of child contact arrangements and then the kind of other string to family is kind of the domestic abuse side of things so obviously protective injunctions, non-molestation orders, occupation orders, that kind of thing so family trainee kind of covers a whole range and certain firms obviously do think slightly differently in terms of the exposure I've stuck pretty predominantly on divorce and finance and dabbled in a little bit of care and dabbled in a little bit of child contact but my day-to-day is divorce and finance essentially advising clients on the ins and outs of divorce and finance.

So obviously I know things have I mean I was divorced in the UK a few years ago and I believe things that have changed a bit since then so what what are the current steps and you know and what should somebody do when if they they've got to that point where they're either just considering divorce or maybe it's beyond that maybe it's the point now where no this is definitely what I do what are those first steps look like? So in terms of the law changing completely correct and so as of April last year the matrimonial causes act essentially was amended and turned divorce law into a no-fault system so previously you would have to have demonstrated one of five facts and essentially to say that your marriage is broken down irretrievably you now just have to essentially state that your marriage is broken down irretrievably you don't have to demonstrate blame and in terms of kind of your your kind of listeners and that that's obviously that that kind of dynamic in terms of infidelity and obviously proving that it's a lot for someone to go through if you're going to go under the adultery clause or the unreasonable behaviour and essentially fact was kind of the other string to that bow and if you're going to go into that the upset and the going through that when you've already gone through what you've gone through to then have to rehash it all to a solicitor and to have to go through that and essentially prove to the court why you why you've been through what you've been through. Just to justify it. The impact that was having was huge and essentially the law recognised that there's mixed views on it a lot of people are for it a lot of people are against it and it really is a it's a yeah chalk and cheese type situation and I did my dissertation on the introduction of new fault divorce and I think it's been a really positive change in terms of getting people through and not kind of dragging up.

Does it still require at that early stage again correct me if I'm wrong but so when I was at the point when I was looking to divorce and go through my divorce there was sort of three theoretical stages one was the you'd have to prove like you say one of those five things you know for unreasonable or irreconcilable breakdown sorry yeah then if that wasn't the case then you would wait two years and you would have to both agree that that's the case or you would wait five years and you could do it with only with either person yeah so has that whole thing changed now? The whole thing has essentially completely gone so you make an application there's the option now to make a sole application or a joint application that's something new that came in which if you're in a couple that's still quite amicable you can make a joint application essentially together it works in a joint way or the sole application the sole are tending to be more popular and they are more common but essentially that yeah the process now is just you have to fill in an application form demonstrates the court that your marriage is broken down irretrievably but without the need to demonstrate any facts or any blame and then the process follows then essentially similar to that we did previously the respondent has to respond has a certain amount of time for him to do so and then it carries on in terms of the stages and terminology change slightly. So just again just for clarification and also as well for anybody listening we are talking about the UK here this is the UK law it will be different in in the US and the other countries that are listening so please check with your own legal professional in those cases but so assuming that one person wants to proceed with divorce but the other person does not how does that play out right now? So essentially the only way you can now dispute a divorce is if there's a procedural error in the divorce which used to be under the kind of the unreasonable behaviour ground you could say well I don't agree with any of those reasons I'm gonna cross apply essentially that's where it got very very messy and essentially now you can only stop the divorce going through and make an application essentially to stop it by saying there's a procedural error something really drastic like you put your wife presents a marriage certificate that's in the UK and you're going well we got married in Switzerland random really drastic example but something procedural essentially and that isn't the way that you can stop it in the same way that you could previously again some people are really for that other people yeah it's interesting I'm thinking about it from a combination of yes there's a personal thought and opinion behind there's also like how could this play out for people so particularly in scenarios where there's been betrayal infidelity things like that emotions are extremely intense you know and best will in the world people do not great make great decisions when in high levels of emotional dysregulation and this is where I would have that caveat of like maybe there should be some period something something that's for that and I mean there's I did a podcast episode a while back on the topic of limerence which is something that most people have never heard of it's this infatuation that usually the person having the affair the unfaithful partner has with the affair partner and the affair partner can have it with the the person who's doing the cheating as well and this can be a very it presents not dissimilar to like the honeymoon period the lust that you often experience in the early part of relationship because then very similar to that so it's often not noticed initially but it can become very obsessive to the point where it can be quite damaging not only to your primary relationship for obvious reasons but also to all areas of your life you start to become blinkered you start to not look after yourself in the same way and everything becomes almost like there's this perfect ideal of what they think the future looks like and this is not an excuse it's not justification but it is a thing that does happen and some people do experience now I could imagine in those scenarios they would think that divorce really would be the best option but when they cycle through this and they reflective on the other side they may no longer think that yeah by which time it's already happened I know technically they could get married again but it's yeah so that is definitely I can see where there is that like I think in terms of the timescales it doesn't work quite as quickly as maybe people would maybe think again I can only talk from our experience as a firm we send out an initial letter to other side essentially two weeks prior to submitting any application which gives people the opportunity to go and get some legal advice to consider it to talk it through with people to digest it and we always kind of say to say to our clients that that gives it gives a higher percentage rate essentially of that person responding on the basis that they've had some time to digest it because you're right people do crazy things when emotions are high yeah I think the first steps before you do anything else is always to just take a minute get your head around what's going on but then go and get some legal advice because it's it's so overwhelming when you speak and everyone has got a friend that's been through it everyone's got a family member everyone can read Google and read articles and read newspaper things and it can be very overwhelming when the amount of people that kind of come out of an initial appointment with us and go I just wish I'd have come and seen you sooner because I've read all these things and I've spoken to all these people and I've got myself into a big flap and sometimes you just need someone to break it down and even if you're right you don't want to press on at that time you don't you just want someone to tell you where you stand give you an overview of the process and then you can go away and deal with it as you want to deal with it if that's I want to deal with it now or if that's I want to come back to you in three months time and so I've had a bit of time to digest calm myself down and get my head straight because it's a lot for anyone it is it's nice to hear that as well from from a legal because you know stereotypically you guys don't get the greatest rap you know and I mean it's joking aside there's there's lots of you know misconceptions about what lawyers do and what solicitors do and and what their priorities are and maybe there's there's a belief that you know the client is not the priority you know the money is in lots of cases and I know that's not necessarily true so so with that question I mean what are the sort of common misconceptions that you've come across when you've been doing what you do? I think you've probably summed up probably one of the main ones I think I mean I can't convince everyone that that's the case for every or not the case for every solicitor all I can say is we're human too we've all we're all doing the job for our own reasons and certainly on my own perspective I'm never shy in telling clients if it's the correct moment and it feels like it's right to let them know essentially my background in as small amount of detail as I possibly can but we're human we get it we we do understand and you've got to that's where the client and clients list of relationships becomes so important so they do trust in what you're saying and if that relationship breaks down there's no real going back from that they've got to trust that you've got their best interests in heart and I'd like to think that we we certainly do everything we can to try and put that it sounds like it those initial appointments are so important we we do at the firm kind of initial advice appointments and set up on a fixed fee basis and those important those in appointments are so important because you get to get to know that person they get to know you and you like to think you build that initial kind of trust up in that appointment and then moving forward you've set the groundwork then and you move from there I think in terms of other kind of misconceptions and one thing that a lot of people kind of don't think about and it comes to us and you kind of go oh god no no I didn't realise that a lot of people especially tends to be in cases that don't have a lot of assets will kind of think well I've got divorce that's that's it that deals with it it's sorted I'm divorced I've got the final order move on I think a big misconception that we're really trying to target kind of at the minute in terms of our our firm and kind of advertisement and kind of blogs and things like that is if you do need to sort out the finances that they're just as important if not more important than sorting out the divorce and you're leaving yourself open essentially to claims in the future if you don't deal with it I think that's a big thing people think just get the divorce get it through people just want to get it done and if you don't deal with things and deal with things properly in terms of the finances you could end up in a stickier situation than when you started. Yeah so with that in mind I mean how how are things divided up generally speaking as it is it the straight 50-50 or are there more factors at play does does it be especially given that there's the change in the divorce law and there's no longer there's no fault that are there any other factors that come into play? So there's there's lots of factors essentially in terms of kind of if you're going to go statute based there's the section 25 back to the matrimonial causes act and essentially the court have to follow in any any decisions they make in terms of any financial orders the starting point you're correct is a 50-50 split so that is the starting point you can you can move from that the biggest reason to move from that is essentially needs and needs based argument needs trumps all essentially if your needs require a departure from equality then that's an argument you can make and essentially the longer the marriage the harder it is to come away from equality the shorter the marriage it easier it is to make those kind of arguments and first and foremost no matter what happens and what's been going on and the background of the any children will always be the first consideration before anything else essentially in terms of infidelity kind of having an impact on financial settlements not so much now on the basis of the change in the law it doesn't change people's view essentially on how finances should be divided but essentially to run a what you call a conduct argument essentially would have to be something that's quite brave essentially it's a very very significant and infidelity doesn't doesn't come on a general basis but it doesn't take away the fact that it's that's the backstory of how people have got to where they've got yeah I think sometimes it can be some of the people I've spoken to some of the situations that have been in is where the the primary earner within the family whether that be the man or the woman so if it's not the primary earner who has had the affair then the one who is now the betrayed that the primary owner of the family and now wants to get divorced and separated not only feels like well I didn't ask to be cheated on but now am I having to support my partner yeah you know I can imagine that's a pretty bitter pill to swallow it is yeah it is and imagine you scare a lot of people from divorce as well it's about managing expectations from from our basis you manage the expectations from an early as on as we physically can those initial appointments aren't really the but that you can do that to an extent but from our perspective we have to know if we think and the only way you can know everything's essentially is getting all of the financial documents and at that point it's the case of managing expectations but you are right it it can be a bit of a pill to swallow but it's about having those conversations with the relevant people essentially and getting your head round the law why is the way that it is and the law will the law essentially is all governed around they will only approve and judges will only approve an order if it's fair and reasonable so although a lot of a lot of people say well that doesn't feel very fair it will only be approved if a judge deems that it's fair and reasonable giving consideration to all of the factors essentially and if you can kind of keep your head on that a lot it does yes it's interesting the way you've been talking about clients coming in getting clear on the facts on the information when people come to work with me that's exactly what we do as well okay we might not be looking at bank balances but we're looking at that clarification of the facts oh absolutely because you know we're human we have brains we have emotions and they like to write stories about things and they make things seem much worse or much different or we're only looking from a very narrow perspective and and that can be quite quite hard to to sort of navigate if you haven't got that clarity there in the first place it's interesting to see that so so with that my in mind obviously you you know you're not a therapy service that's not what your purpose is and you know as we've already discussed emotions can be pretty tough to handle when it comes to divorce infidelity and not just these issues but any divorce you know regardless of the the reason for the separation it's always a challenging thing to experience so how do you as a solicitor as Pepperell's handle this and what sort of resources and other things do you provide or direct to support people in those moments so I think I think the biggest thing is in terms of clients we appreciate it's an emotional time okay coming back to kind of what I said earlier we're human we get it and from certainly my perspective I've been through it as a child and I saw the impact it had on my parents I didn't ever go to a sister's office with either my mum or my dad but I I so very often will see people and think I can imagine that's what my mum would have been like and you can't help relate to people which I'd like to think makes me more relatable and we understand as much as we can but then also we're there to give the legal advice we can't tell them what they want to hear so there's there's a fine there's a fine line I think the most important thing to say is that we will always let you take your time take a deep breath here have a tissue and coming back to a misconception we're not going to charge you to go make you a cup of tea if you need to take a break and take a cup of tea essentially we're human too we will do everything we can in terms of additional resources you're right when we're not a therapy service we lean on other facilities if we think it's needed kind of doctors mental health specialists are kind of the obvious if you're going to go down kind of that route in terms of emotions we would be the first to recommend to someone look I think you should go and speak to your GP and just get a bit extra support go and speak to kind of a mental a mental health therapist specialist whichever way you look at it we're not we're not specifically trained to obviously deal with that but can always pinpoint in the right direction terms of kind of other resources and divorce kind of leaves naturally into kind of obvious kind of things so first thing says kind of financial advisors we obviously talk with clients kind of a lot in terms of kind of mortgages and in terms of pension provisions so we will very often say to clients go and get some kind of expert advice essentially I'm not an expert in mortgages any more than I'm an expert in pensions and go and speak to a financial advisor who is an expert and can give you some expert advice and kind of leading into then mediation essentially that's the other kind of script string to the bow it's a different option it's a different way to come to a solution essentially but it's a it's a resource that we can lean on a we can refer to and it gives clients options what those kind of things do it means that not only if they got us they've got those other resources to lean on but then they can come back to us they can come back to us and say well if I went and had a conversation with my GP and I'm feeling not clear about the conversation we had last week now for example or if it kind of it hits a point that we're in in court proceedings kind of worst-case scenario in terms of finances it might be that we need that GP evidence essentially to justify the struggles that they're going to do and the impact it tends to be in terms of finances if if that kind of emotional stress has hit a point that it's impacting your ability to work coming back to kind of the section 25 factors that's a that's a key a key thing and the court need to be aware of the impact these issues whether that's their infidelity or any other kind of things they need to be aware that these issues are there and if they're having a significant impact on your lifestyle and your ability to earn a living and it all it does all link in it all turns into a puzzle it sounds like there's this it's about using the right tool for the right thing you have a very specific area of expertise a field that you can help people with on this part of the journey and unfortunately unfortunately it can sometimes require multiple parts to the jigsaw to be able to to put the whole journey together and I recognise that for my myself too we spoke a little bit earlier I mentioned about that where you've got a difference in let's say income from one person to the other whether this is a misconception or not and I'd like to like it ironed out if it is hopefully it is but I might be wrong and that is is it true that the person with the most financial backing is more likely to get their way when it comes to the settlement let's say financially so I think it's a massive yeah it's a massive thing and it's a lot of thing you hear that a lot and it is something that people draw down and the person that's got the money can pay for the best solicitor and we'll get the best outcome coming back to the court the court aren't interested in whether you've had the best solicitor or it comes down to what is fair and reasonable yes in a court hearing if you've got kind of a solicitor who's you've got to have systems got you back essentially of course what I would say that doesn't come down to money you've paid that comes down to picking the right solicitor for you but it is it is something that you've kind of you have to try and iron out initially what I will say is that coming back to the starting point of kind of a quality it brings people in line essentially that is the purpose of a financial settlement but from our perspective you never if you haven't got the funds to spend thousands and thousands and thousands of pounds we will do everything we can to still ensure that we can support you essentially there's different there's different obviously options okay okay well I think that's that's that's that's interesting and although maybe not the perfect solution it's at least it's some way towards it's not a definitive binary answer which is I think that can be comforting for for some listening as well and so how can and if this is even possible you know you're can you've got children there's there's things to consider you thinking about divorce but we're not so sure whether your partner is or not and you're wanting to make decisions is there anything that people can do to sort of better prepare themselves for it rather than just you know going in blind and is there anything they can do to protect their assets or to better you know I'm not talking about fiddling the system I'm just talking like in terms of what are there any fair ways reasonable ways sensible ways in which you can put yourself in a stronger position if you go down that road I think it really depends on the circumstance a lot of a lot of people we tend to if you're more amicable and you've managed to kind of have some substantial conversations prior it kind of puts you in a in a front it's that you've got less to kind of argue over obviously that the more you've got to argue the more drawn out it becomes and the more damage potentially you're you're doing in terms of kind of kind of things you can do initially I think we've actually said earlier just trying to read too much and get yourself into a bit of a bit of a frenzy about what you need to know what you don't need to know there's plenty of time to get your head around things in terms of kind of initially protecting assets children those kind of things obviously children proceedings and child contact tends to come hand in hand with divorce but child contact can always come first if that's something that you want to get that sorted and then the divorce follows comes down to your priorities essentially and if you're quite content with the children and kind of what you've agreed in terms of the children at the initial stance that can sometimes be something that follows whereas if the children contact is the thing that's really causing an issue divorce can wait and we deal with that first.

Just out of interest with regards to children just from what you've seen what you've experienced in some of the colleagues you've worked with are so for example when when when I got divorced me and my wife at the time we we laid out what we we basically agreed even before we came to going through divorce proceedings in terms of like how we're going to split the kids in terms of the time where they would live all of these things what what responsibility would have and you know I mean maybe I was very fortunate that that despite the circumstances I was still in a situation where these you know the co-parenting relationship was something that was really important to me and fortunately for me I suppose it was really important to her too so it meant that we could do that but is that typical or not? It really depends it depends on the breakdown I think that the worst breakdowns more uncommon but you kind of have to come back to a point of the children have got to be the first thought and I think if people can put aside what else is going on for the benefit of the children that says so much about you as a parent and from from a child's perspective I can tell you that it means a lot when the parents put everything else aside and focus on you but I think I think it really does it really does depend as to how how the situation is kind of going you would hope that you would be able to sort something in terms of child arrangements and whether that's just a case of getting it kind of drawn up into consent order or whether you're satisfied you've agreed it but essentially it's something that needs it needs considering one way or the other because it comes back to not having uncertainty so you don't want to be in a situation where things are up in the air because that's not it's no good for anyone no no definitely not so we've so far we've spoken all about everything prior to the divorce this is like all the leading up to you know so once those papers come through the judges signed it off it's it's finalised and the financial paperwork is done as well the agreements there is there anything else that people should consider ongoing beyond divorce with their partner so I think the biggest thing to say in terms of finances is obviously the financial order might be sealed it might have been approved but there will be very often things that have got to be done if the obviously allows for a transfer of property it obviously puts into place a pension sharing order you've still got to take those steps so I think it's still important to remember that even at the time that everything feels final there's very often that's where the hard work all the starts because you've now got to put everything into effect whether that's putting the house on the market whether that's transferring kind of interest in properties sharing pensions whatever that looks like that still has to be done in terms of kind of other things if you come away from kind of finances and divorce altogether the biggest thing we always say to people at the end of proceedings and whether that's kind of from a consent order or whether that's court proceedings then one of the last things we will always say to someone is have you sorted out your will and because we will tell people from the get-go and they very often will say lots of people do update their will at the time they come and see and a lot of someone will go I'll deal with it later and I think one thing to always remember at the point that you're no longer married and at the point that that final order comes through in terms of the divorce if you're leaving anything to your husband or your wife and your will hasn't been amended essentially or updated to reflect an updating agreement then essentially it's as if that person has died you essentially strike through the will so if you're going to consider anything off the back of a divorce if you haven't already had you had a new will essentially in contemplation of a divorce is how it's worded if you haven't done that that's the kind of the big the big thing that we wouldn't we don't close down a case essentially until we've had that conversation with someone so if you've got to not do kind of not forget to do something consider that if you've updated your will previously and it's been drafted in contemplation of your divorce you very often don't have to do anything but if you haven't just tread carefully. That makes a lot of sense a lot of good advice there thank you. So finally do you have any just general comment I know we've covered a lot today and or advice or wisdom from anything you've experienced or you've shared with your clients as they've sort of navigated the complexes or anything specific that comes to mind? I think the biggest thing is just don't be afraid to ask I think people sometimes get so kind of caught up in they we send emails and we're all guilty of it we all send emails when we probably should call and I've always said don't don't ever feel afraid to just pick up the phone and I'm as an individual trying to get better at ringing ringing clients and you I don't think you realise how sometimes an email exchange back and forwards if you just have that telephone call it puts them at ease and so I think don't be afraid to say I didn't really understand that can you can you just give me a ring and we're all guilty of it of throwing out the legal spiel and expecting everyone to understand it and we can send advice letters we can set it out in writing but don't be afraid to kind of say can you just ring me and talk that through with me and I think it comes back to that that relationship with clients if they feel they can do that and they feel that if they ring they'll get answered because coming back to another kind of misconception you can never get hold of your solicitor and obviously we are we are busy I can't always promise to answer the phone but if they know they'll get a call back I'd like to think that that puts their mind at ease a little bit.

Great, I think that's been really useful today Charlotte, I really really appreciate you you coming on and sort of want to thank you and on behalf of Pepperell's as well for letting us have this conversation I think it'd be really valuable to actually for people everywhere okay there's some things that are very UK specific but I think there's a lot of really good advice a lot of really useful things that you've said today that get a bit of clarity on before they make these decisions if they are in that particular position and they're facing it so yeah thank you very very much. So with regards to yourself and Pepperell's, are you nationwide, is it UK completely or just local or who can work for you, who can come to? So essentially the head office is in Hull, so kind of up that end of the country, so Lincoln is the most south essentially we currently are and then various offices across Scunthorpe essentially where we started, Grimsby and then go up essentially up to York Newcastle so we cover that kind of area. So sort of East Midlands and Yorkshire but also kind of with the caveat of with the time we're now in we could always have a team's appointment.

That's what I was going to ask is it based on geography, do they have to be able to come to to the office or can you do it remotely? No so you can always do it remotely I'm going to be honest on a personal level I quite like having people in, I think coming back to everything we've discussed and building that relationship, you can't be kind of being sat with a client. We have some clients that come in for an initial appointment but then kind of you speak to them over Teams and they're on in. I have clients that aren't in the offices so I have Hull clients that I will probably never meet but they can go into the Hull office and see a colleague if they need to and so yeah there is there is options but certainly where we are now in terms of technology and I think Covid changed a lot of people's thoughts on virtual meetings and things like that that yeah the door will always be open to essentially wider than where just the offices are.

Perfect well thank you very much Charlotte and it's been an absolute pleasure to have you on. Thank you very much, thanks for having me. You're welcome.

Well I found that conversation really valuable and really interesting and I think Charlotte highlighted some some really important points. Simply seeking the advice when you are considering divorce is essential in all honesty and probably not something to fear in and of itself. Although there are lots of emotional challenges when facing divorce, there are lots of logistical challenges, there are lots of financial challenges, at least there are in some cases, the key really is making sure that you are seeking the advice from the appropriate resources to help you make a much clearer, much more intentional decision about how you proceed and as a summary to all of this I would really highlight the importance of taking time, taking time to process your emotions during this heightened state and seek legal advice and ultimately manage your expectations.

Remember emotions can often lead to irrational decisions and it's so useful to seek clarity before taking that further action. Remember whether you're considering divorcing due to infidelity or navigating other challenges in your relationship, it's essential to have a support system in place, seek professional guidance if required and ultimately prioritise the well-being of those involved, specifically your children. Thank you once again for joining me on the After the Affair podcast.

I would be really grateful if you haven't already to go and rate, review, like, share, do whatever it takes to help get this podcast in front of more people. If it's helped you we know and guarantee it can help somebody else as well, they've just not found it yet and all of that input is really, really useful. Thank you ever so much and I'll speak to you all next week.