48. Motivating Change: Faust Ruggiero’s Guide for Professional Self-Help

When your world has imploded after betrayal, it’s easy to feel powerless and unsure of where to begin. What if the key to healing wasn’t about fixing the relationship, but rediscovering your own strength? In this empowering episode, I’m joined by psychologist and author Faust Ruggiero, who brings over 40 years of clinical experience to the conversation about healing from the inside out.

Together, we explore what it really takes to rebuild after infidelity, not just emotionally, but practically, psychologically, and spiritually. Faust shares his Process Way of Life and how his book "The Fix Yourself Handbook" offers a structured and accessible path for self-healing. Whether you’ve been betrayed, left behind, or are simply stuck in your recovery, this episode is packed with tools to help you move forward, stronger and wiser than before.

Key Takeaways:

• Learn why true healing begins with internal balance, not external fixes.

• Discover how to reclaim your power after betrayal without shame or blame.

• Understand how toxic dynamics can build slowly and subtly over time.

• Find out why working on yourself doesn’t have to feel like “hard work.”

• Get practical self-help tools from "The Fix Yourself Handbook" to guide your growth.

💬 Reflection question:

Have you started rebuilding after betrayal, or are you still waiting for something outside of you to change?

Connect with Luke:

• Website: www.lifecoachluke.com

• Instagram: @mylifecoachluke

• Email: luke@lifecoachluke.com

Join the After the Affair community at www.facebook.com/groups/aftertheaffaircommunity

Episode Transcript:

The After The Affair podcast with me Luke Shillings is here to help you process, decide and move forward on purpose following infidelity. Together we'll explore what's required to rebuild trust not only in yourself but also with others. Whether you stay or leave I can help and no matter what your story there will be something here for you.

Let's go. Hello and welcome to episode number 48 of the After The Affair podcast with myself Luke Shillings. Today I'm being joined by Forst Bruggiero whose professional career spans over 40 years and is as diversified as it is compelling as he has consistently established new and exciting cutting-edge counselling programmes in his pursuit of professional excellence and personal life enhancement.

He is a published research author, clinical trainer and a therapist who has worked in settings that have included clinics for deaf children, prisons, nursing homes, substance abuse centres, inpatient facilities, major corporations both national and international and as the president of the Community Psychological Centre in Bangor, Pennsylvania. In that capacity he developed the process way of life counselling programme and he has since developed it into the formal text presented in the Fix Yourself handbook which we'll talk a little bit about today. So without further ado let's get straight into today's conversation.

Okay Forst, it's lovely to meet you and lovely to have you on the podcast and it's when you when you reached out and said that you'd like to discuss some of the work that you do and tie that in with some of the work that I do then I was a my interest was immediately peaked. I've seen that you have a vast amount of experience in fact you've been doing this probably longer than I've been alive and that's yeah I really can't wait to see where this goes. So to start with if you would introduce yourself and let the listeners know a little bit about what it is you do maybe a little bit of background and we'll take it from there.

Sounds great. First of all Luke thanks for inviting me to be here today. It's certainly my pleasure.

As far as I'm concerned for all the listeners my name is Forst Bruggero. I'm a psychologist in the United States. I've been doing therapy private therapy for about 43 years now still doing it.

I have a couple books on various subjects and been doing a lot just to publicise the books and when I saw your podcast obviously it was a something that really drew me in because I have done a lot of counselling with people who have gone through affairs and have been left behind and all those kinds of things and I've also done the work with people who have done those things to other people so you know I've both sides of this thing. So yeah that vast experience and knowledge and insight and to tie that in with some of the other things that you've done in life because I know that your experience is wider than just this area within for example infidelity and relationships and you know maybe if you could talk a little bit about how this started for you and what sort of led you down this route. Sure you know I've always been a person who felt that thinking should be diversified enough so we can have all the various reference points we need when we're treating people so way back back in the day in the in the 1970s when I was in graduate school I was able to design a programme that was specific to what I was looking for had you know the clinical aspects but also had normal development because I really think you need to know that if you're gonna bring people through these trouble spots in their lives and then when I left I began to work in different places I worked with deaf kids I've worked in substance abuse clinics and in mental health clinics I've been I worked in prisons you know just a lot of different venues to you know to help people there and to get as much information as I could and then I've been in private practise since 1988 and we're doing individual family marriage substance abuse abused women lots of different different people that I've been working with so it's been a long run but a very fulfilling one.

It's interesting the link there that I've recently been doing some in-person workshops and some of those have been to an addiction rehabilitation centre and you know I was brought in as an expert on trust because you know we get these sort of like parallels let's say in this area of life and it's interesting to hear that that's something that obviously you'd you'd worked with in your earlier part of your career as well. Yeah I actually started doing that in the prison right before the prison I worked in a drug and alcohol agency and went out and got us and got certified in substance abuse here in the United States you need to do that if you're gonna treat substance abuse people which makes sense because there's just too many people treating those folks that don't have an understanding of what addictions all about so I went out and got certified in that so we brought that into the practise also and it's a different type of clientele to work with but yeah very much so yeah these people have been through been through a lot and it's a challenging situation to to be in and to to work through as well. Now I understand that you've created something called the process way of life I'd love to learn a little bit more about that.

Yeah let me talk about that in general terms the book is that was the first book I wrote and it's based upon what I use in my counselling approach and you know we get trained and they teach us all the the basics and the fundamentals and then you know but we don't counsel out of a book that would be foolish so we we throw out what doesn't work or what doesn't seem to apply and we begin to build something so I found that there are processes in life that we all experience and if we learn how to master those then life becomes efficient it becomes productive and it becomes happy and they're basic we start very basic kind of it's like what I call brutal honesty being very honest with yourself getting your emotions and kind of pushing them off to the side so your intellect can can gather facts and then emoting later on based on the facts slowing down life you know and all the other things like gratitude and humility and people pleasing we talk how to not to do the all all different things there are 52 processes I work with in the first book there are 32 chapter 36 chapters I'm sorry that have all these these processes in them and and they can be applied to any topic in life that's the thing about them so when I apply them to couples and to people who have been left behind and hurt what what's the primary goal we want to re-empower people we want to because you know someone leaves you someone hurts you and it's you kind of implode from the inside and the whole world is different and you feel either angry or victimised or or stuck in some place so you know I've been able to use these processes to get people back in touch with what they need to do you know get back into the power inside them if you will because we all have that you know when the bomb goes off and someone says I don't want to be around you anymore we my god you know that I just hear that and now you're leaving and the kids are going and the house is going to be sold and the finances and whole new social everything you'll employment you know everything you know it's not just you left me and I'll I'll figure this out every it touches every single part of our life you know intellectually physically emotionally spiritually it comes and gets us and what I do is I put it back in order help them put it back in order so we get to what I call internal balance get those those you know the intellect and the emotions and the mind and the spirit back in in a balance which is what we it's where you know good happy living comes from yeah I mean it's it interesting how we can be trained in multiple different things or specific disciplines and specific topics and specific models and ideas and concepts and strategies and tools and and all of these things and really it's just about picking the bits that work for the individual and I've found that from some certainly from my perspective of course we could use any one path to get to a solution and there is no right way to heal by definition there's there is there are multiple paths that work and every individual is unique and different so being able to draw from from sort of your professional perspective and sort of similar to what I do as well being able to draw from these different tools these different resources and compile them into a way which can help that client to meet that client where they're at at that particular point in time which like you describe is like an implosion and it's that everything has just just fallen apart and I often describe it as being you know I remember when it was what it was like for me it's like I genuinely felt I knew what the next 10 years looked like and then all of a sudden it's like I did not know what tomorrow looks like everything looks different that's that's the problem the whole terrain changes people you know again it's not not just back to G you left me it's like you know when you're 16 and your girlfriend or a boyfriend breaks up with you and okay you you repair yourself a little you know you go back and you ask someone else out now every your car looks different your your job is different people that you see it and that you don't even want to see everything is different and you feel as though you're an alien in a whole new world and how do I piece this back together because I can't even figure out what I'm in you know exactly but what I you know what I what I do with people's eyes okay we're gonna obviously redefine some things but let's go back in and just as you said let's talk about your specific conditions who left you why left you that's great but let's look at how you know what happened to you let's look at where you are because we need to put together a programme that's going to be tailored just for you you know and and and we're gonna give you we're gonna start by giving you this safe place you can and the way I counsel is you know I'm not the call call them up what I come in once a week and we'll talk it's you know I'm a 24-7 365 guide I think you can't do it that way you probably shouldn't be in the business it's not uncommon to have someone go through one of these and it's three o'clock in the morning and I'm asleep and my phone goes off and I'll look at it and I'll say okay I have them in my my little address book okay it's so and so okay hey what's going on and then we we go because that's what they need you know you know coming in at five o'clock one evening and staying till six that's great we put some things together but then three o'clock in the morning hit and the anxiety and the panic attack is starting and you're lonely and depressed and you you're now getting a bit desperate whole lot easier to call someone who is your person you're you know represents your safe place and then start you know well here I need this because again it's an implosion and there's just one point where they can reach out and say okay I got that one I can't do ten I can't do all these other things I can do one and you're there so you know I make that part of the programme also we have all these tools and all these processes but they don't work unless I'm there to help you get started with them then we move from that point oh yeah and again there's even a little bit of self-validation here for me as well in a lot of ways I was I was on a short notice call with a client yesterday and then I was replying to a relatively urgent email from a client quite late in the evening only a couple of nights ago is and it really is that this is not just this like once a week you go you forget about it for a week you turn up you go you forget about it for a week or at least the the coach or therapist or counsellor it really is this this journey that you are taking with your coach or your therapist absolutely and you know when they come in you know we have to keep in mind that even though we make it safe and it's a nice calm friendly wonderful supportive setting when they leave they put a check down or they put money down so they can leave and say well they only want me for that hour and I pay them for that and that's why they're listening to me and I always tell people that's the hour you pay for but I don't charge you for your phone call and you send me that email or whatever I'm good if that's the way you prefer to communicate we're gonna do that you need to know that you have a person who is there and it's yes it's a business but I truly love the people that I work with if you don't love them then you're going to say okay fine thanks see you next week and that's going to be done they know it's way beyond a transactional process it has to be has to be I couldn't couldn't agree more and I think there's also an interesting element there that when you have experienced this this intense change in your life you're in a significant change of circumstance due to these external things that we often can't control human other human beings being pretty much at the top of that list you know we as much as we'd love to be able to control the people around us the reality is that we don't have that power so when we're in that place we often feel very lonely we feel like we can't reach out particularly if it's something like you are the betrayed spouse and you feel ashamed and embarrassed and you're afraid to tell your friends and your family because then you feel like you're judging yourself how didn't you see it how how did you let this happen why have you remained with someone particularly if you've chosen to stay after something's happened like this as well I know for a lot of the guys that I work with that can be a real concern for them that they feel like that they're they're just you know being taken advantage of they're just being taken for a ride they feel like a bit of a Muppets that I live they've just it's like no actually you are demonstrating the strength you are demonstrating so much strength and that is such a solid foundational pillar which we can use to then start building on to take you through your recovery journey take full responsibility for yourself and significantly improve all of your relationships not just your immediate romantic one and you said a number of things I think are important it makes sense you do need to take be accountable and say okay I need to move forward there is a lot of shame sometimes guilt and then that comes to self-blame well maybe if I would have and I said well you know if you're in a marriage or a relationship and you make a decision that to go out and now take up with someone else it wasn't because your relationship was bad it's because you you have that capability in you and I try to keep people understanding that if your marriage was bad and that person didn't say anything and just went in another direction that's who that person was if your marriage have your relationship has problems and they said look we have problems I'm I may have problems staying here and and you didn't pay attention and they left we're talking about some different things so you know when they come in depending on on the situation it could be guilt and it could be shame and it could be I'm not worthy anymore and no one's going to want me and and plus you know we look at the breakup okay someone went out and did something to you but you know as well as I do the five or ten years or whatever that it was really toxic or dysfunctional that was already beating you up this was kind of the period at the end of the sentence now you say oh my god it did happen but in the meantime look at what I was doing to try to keep this together and I was getting beat up we were arguing all the time if there were children in the picture they were seeing all this there is a huge you know dysfunctional toxic root that that we take before we get to the to the eventual separation and that's the part that really you know I look I help them look at it and we have to go back and look at all of what was happening then if it was this was a wonderful relationship and geez he or she was already was doing something over there okay that's a different circumstance you've been victimised we deal with that but most of them I get don't have just that one component most of them have this trail they've been blazing for almost always and nothing this is on both sides as well interest yes so it's very easy to to point and of course I've said this before on the podcast and I'll say it again when it comes to actually choosing to be unfaithful that is wholly in the responsibility of the person who has made that choice regardless of the circumstances that have led up to that or the dynamics of the relationship or literally any other elements as it happens but when it comes to reflecting back so I work predominantly with betrayed spouses not exclusively but predominantly and when it comes back to reflecting back on the relationship the initial thing that often people come to me there is they want to turn back time they want the magic pill they want everything just to go back to how it was but then when we start really looking at how it was and I'm quote-unquoting here with my fingers in the air that actually the relationship wasn't as honest and transparent and the communication wasn't as good as they thought and there were lots of expectations that they had of their partner that weren't being met or maybe their partner had expectations of them and they weren't being met but the this was not not saying it was a bad bad relationship not necessarily you know down the lines of what you might consider abusive or always arguing or fighting or things like that but it didn't have that like solid deeper connection where you've got two people actively trying to work on the relationship and keep it going it's so easy to to start a relationship in that period of lust and excitement and the honeymoon period but of course that fades after not long in reality and then you're left with a bit where you have to work but of course at that point you've sort of taken it for granted that you should feel all excited and happy and amazing but of course that does fade unless you actively work on that part of your relationship and that's what most people don't do and that point it's one of the ones I cover in the first book you know I will I will say to people look that whole dance we do when we first meet someone that is our emotions that's not our intellect our intellect has to come in and learn how to be a partner in a relationship the emotional dance that we think is has got to stay forever and then somehow we lost it and we went our separate ways was nothing more than emotions that you know we can't we cannot under any circumstances continue to function at an emotional level that we feel when we first start a relationship that's exhausting you know and it it lays waste to good decision-making and to proper planning and to and to the truth it rarely is ever honest in those in those early days so you know I want to get them back to looking at that and saying this is where it probably you think it went off five years later it probably wasn't on from the very beginning very possible and and let's look back let's go back and see how far you know how bad it was in the beginning and usually as I'm into the second or third session it goes to what you just said they said this was bad a long time I've been making bad decisions for a while I'm going home maybe from work and I'm really not thrilled about getting there it's Groundhog Day over and over and I'm not happy with it it's all those kinds of things because guess what my emotions aren't being gratified and I need you to gratify when I hear that I need you to be this way for me I always say well wait a minute how does another person make you feel happy you need to make you feel happy and if you can't do that when you got into the relationship and hope your other half was going to complete you you were on the wrong square to begin with. 100% and it's strange isn't it sayings like that that seem and sound so innocent it's like you complete me you know yeah and of course it's terrible but actually it's so dependent it's so it's it's it's almost like victim labelling in some respects you're sort of holding yourself as a victim to the other person or as a puppet in some respect where the other person has complete control and I don't mean to use that word in and you know obviously that can have a very strong meaning as well but it really it really does leave you powerless in a situation when you are permanently dependent on the behaviour of your partner or anybody else for that matter. It's actually victimising yourself is what it's doing and and on the other side if I'm in a relationship and the other person says you complete me and you make me happy I'm already seeing red flags I'm gonna well I have to keep on doing this yeah you know so what happens if gee I hit a dry spell something's going on in my life it's illness it's some maybe I have anxiety or job stuff or whatever am I supposed to perform at that same level how many people think about it in the people you've counselled how many times have you seen someone begin a relationship with someone else because their spouse is ill and can no longer intellectually physically and emotionally perform you know and my needs anymore I can't feel completed I feel empty the tank is running out and I need to go replenish it with some new and something new and shiny and and sparkly and all but let me start that whole process all over again it's also why people flirt in in relationships and I've always said the people will say to me do you flirt and I said absolutely not I said it tease have fun with people good warm heart stuff that's fine but flirting always has an agenda it does flirting is designed for that little gratification push we think we need and if that's if you're flirting it's a red flag to say you're already not happy not in your relationship but with yourself exactly and I think that's a pattern that is kind of interesting that we we mentioned sort of addiction at the beginning of the conversation that that that dopamine hit that you get and then of course that fades so you get that honeymoon period and it's really exciting and that's how a relationship should feel and that's what we've been told that's what you're telling yourself and as that fades away it's like oh well it must be my partner's the problem so then you you look elsewhere and I'm not I'm not saying this always leads to infidelity of course but you maybe just decide that actually that partner's no good for me so I move on and then I get into another relationship and I get through the honeymoon period honeymoon period again and then the same cycle repeats and again and again and if that's not ironed out for want of a better word in the in the earlier stages of learning how to be in courtship with another person then that pattern will repeat throughout your life and okay the time spent might vary slightly sometimes it might be a few months sometimes it might be a few years sometimes it's even a few decades and these patterns stay stuck and people again the key of everything you just said in my opinion is that we tend to look to the outside we're outside in people let me go out there I'll find out it will make me happy and you know and we saw that in the whole covid thing where people were just falling apart I can't go out and be social and I said well you shouldn't have to it's nice to have it but we need to go work from the inside out get strong inside and then take that and wrap that around our world we'd and that takes a little bit more work and it takes longer but once you master it you don't need all the other things now when you're with other people you really appreciate them more because you want nothing from them they're allowed to be themselves you you enjoy that they enjoy the fact that they can they present you with a very uh a human a picture of who they are which is very nice no masks all that kind of stuff can can be dropped but it is it still comes down to getting strong inside and I will tell people that's probably why the relationship ended because one or both of you were not and if you don't get to the point that you work on getting strong not not re-establishing your life or go back to what it used to be or try to rekindle this or recreate this if you don't get strong inside and create a world that is empowered the odds are it happens again yes we'll be right back in just a moment are you feeling lost and confused after infidelity introducing the on-purpose coaching programme the path to transforming your pain into empowerment by taking back control the on-purpose coaching programme is specifically designed to help you go from feeling paralysed by betrayal to feeling empowered and secure in your relationships as someone who has already walked this journey I understand your struggles and provide a customised coaching experience tailored to your unique situation don't let betrayal define you take control of your life and regain your confidence visit lifecoachluke.com today to learn more about the transformative on-purpose coaching programme plus you can book a let's talk discovery call to explore how I can support you personally and don't forget to subscribe to receive the latest relationship tips and tricks in your email box once a week take the first step towards a stronger more empowered you visit lifecoachluke.com today and unlock your true potential let's get back to the show so with reference to this this element of we we get to that stage we start reflecting on our relationship and realising that maybe it wasn't quite what we had been telling ourselves maybe that story we've been telling ourselves wasn't quite as as accurate even though that is still subjective of course as as we as we as we thought and then we start to recognise that we're creating we're responsible for creating our own experience and we're responsible for taking responsibility for ourselves so then it can turn very quickly and often I see people they they get to this point and then they they think oh so I was the problem or I was oh at least I played a much bigger part of the problem than I realised how do you how do you help people through that part I start by saying let's do let's do some defining let's start looking at who you are who you have been we're going to do historical things family and all that kind of stuff they can they can see where it came from but then if if we don't move forward start to move forward a bit they can get stuck in all of those things great I did this and then they'll look back to another relationship and yeah I did it there too and my mother and father said and you know that type of thing so I say look we're human let's say all that is the case do you want to go forward and redo it start start the whole process again do you want to not go forward and be unhappy what is it that you want now we're going to define what they want in their lives and I've got to get them past well I want my husband or my wife back because you know I said let's move that out of the picture for now let's talk about you what type of person do you want to be when they start to really look at that then I might say and can you have it with that person who you who left you and then the light bulb goes on no I can't I said and okay so let's not look at the relations let's talk about where you want to be in your life and let's start creating you not recreating not going back and put patches on and fixing this let's create your world we move slowly incremental small steps we start attacking various little things and they start to realise that okay I can feel a little bit better and it didn't go away it came from in here most people don't know that this in here I'm talking about exists so true they don't realise I mean you know we didn't we weren't born with all these uh relationships and they didn't come out with us we've no or them later on we were born alone everything we needed was in there and the additional caveat to that as well as we're not educated on it either we're not we're not so we come into the world you know the world has been here for as long as it's been here providing us with everything we needed and we as humans have survived physically intellectually emotionally all these years why would we think we have to depend on that other person it's all already in there and I'm not telling them to forego the other people I'm saying get strong so you don't need them but you welcome them into your life it's a different way to love very different very very different and I think it's interesting that when in answering that question you well I didn't say the word you you were talking around the idea of identity it's like who am I and and an identity is an interesting one because we tend to describe our identity based on what's happened in the past on everything that has come before we do is there is this and in a way it makes logical sense because well I have evidence I can I can look at the things that I've done and the actions I've taken and the way that I've treated other people and then I can I can use that as some kind of descriptive mechanism to to describe who I am now but really identity is open for change at any given point in time you are only the person a bit like you and me sat here now we are only the people our identities are the people that we're in conversation with this moment as it's happening live and we get to change that and live into in your identity of any identity that we want going forward and of course when you've come out of a difficult relationship or you've experienced infidelity or any kind of betrayal you question your identity because you no longer know or realise you're not sure who you are anymore because everything that you thought you were that role you played and I remember this myself I I had this role as husband and and family man and and father and obviously I'm still a father of course but I now no longer live in the same house as my children so that the dynamic has changed and so my identity was no longer so it was a case of reinventing myself and once I once I dealt with the fact that I it was I was no longer bound by those previous forms of my identity I could now live into my new identity whatever I wanted that to be it's just interesting to see what your thoughts are on that and taking off on that when we talk about identity people will say okay all this has changed I'm not married to that person I'm not in the house with my children all these things have changed that part of my life died and I say no we have a timeline you're born you died everything about you exists on that timeline okay so it didn't die but you're going to restructure some things your children are still in your life your ex may or may not be depending on the dynamics there who you are what you do how you socialise all those things they're still there you didn't lose everything but what you did is you decided that this relationship was the core of your existence and when it went away all these things didn't have a place to connect to something we're going to they and they shouldn't have had they should have connected to you that person that wife that meant that wife or whoever is part of your life not your entire life that's where the mistake comes in so when they leave everything of course it implodes because you think it doesn't have anything to hold there's no foundation anymore but the foundation needed to be inside you to begin with because regardless of how good your relationship is somewhere in life if you are going to lose that relationship whether it's divorce whether it's inevitable whether it's leaving whether it's death whatever and we we know that from the beginning but we don't well I don't want to talk about that I don't think about that when I have to experience that when I get there yeah no that's an inevitable part of a relationship it starts and it ends one way or another so we have to be strong enough to say financially and emotionally and intellectually and socially and all those things I can go on and that should be built into our lives we'll mourn if a spouse dies there's grieving time there's rebuilding and there's all those neat neat help me out on this that's okay oh yeah but we should not be at the end of the you know let me you know find the nearest bridge we don't need to do that we need to we we need to understand how to be strong inside and and the important thing about that is most people don't want to go there they'd rather find someone and when when when I break this down with people they look and say but you know other people I said no that was the problem you depend codependency call it what you want hold yourself up everything you are then your own foundation exactly and just as you were talking there you don't want to go there element and then looking for something so I often use this concept of the motivational triad it's this idea that we seek pleasure avoid pain and conserve energy and that avoiding pain bit that's the not wanting to go there and the easiest thing is the quick fix and the quick fix is the the whatever it looks like and for some people it can be another person sometimes it can be alcohol or drugs or something exciting or food or tv or netflix or whatever it can be it can be different things for different people but it's ultimately avoiding that that discomfort that comes with delaying gratification doing the hard work and being very intentional about how you want to move forward you know two thoughts uh the hard work that pain when I question them about that and I say let's define that 10 15 is the fact when they present it the rest is their emotion about it so I said do you realise how much worse you made this look it would it now it could be change you made it now you made it the change monster it's not it's a it's a little it's a little business deal you have to go in and simply attack it with your intellect and the other thing is when a lot of therapists talk with their people the people interpret it as just what you said work oh I've got to do the work and I said why are you making this drudgery this is yourself this is you the only thing the why don't you turn this into fun why don't you make recreating yourself something to look forward to instead of something to beat yourself up when people come in my office I'm one of these people I'm very dynamic in my approach you can probably see that but I'm also a bit of a comic at times and now I will introduce some humour and I'll make them laugh at some things and I say look at where you just were 10 seconds ago now you're laughing that's the approach I'm I'm gonna love my life I'm gonna turn this into something that really feels good and and I'm not looking at a destination down there I hope you know in five years I'll be better that's insane I will I am going to be better today today I'm gonna start working I'm gonna start looking at some things and I'm gonna find some good things about it or I'm gonna at least get my attitude to the point that I'm saying I'm open to this and I'm willing to do it and I'm not gonna turn this into drudgery you know I get asked from people all the time how do you counsel people 10 hours a day and I said well I don't make it drudgery could you imagine if 10 hours of my life every day was hi how are you oh my god really I'd be in therapy let's enjoy the process let's enjoy what we're doing here once they grab that and they realise that this isn't I'm coming back from hell you know I'm coming back from something that didn't work something is now discarded is no longer part of my life I have the resources and I have the ability to move forward but I've got to embrace it.

Yeah I could not agree more the the I often have people asking me sort of friends and family and people who know me quite well it's like oh you know you how do you cope with it you know you're hearing all these these people's stories and situations and experiences all the time you know doesn't that just get you down all the time and I'm thinking well no because I'm seeing the growth that these people are doing and it's the people that are doing it it's the clients that are doing the growth I'm not doing the growth they're doing the growth and I get to witness it which is wonderful and we've spoken quite a lot today about the the support that a professional can provide somebody who's going through the situation and of course some people either maybe are fearful of seeking professional help or maybe they're worried about the cost or the commitment or maybe they don't have that trust in themselves that they'll follow through and they might want to look to external things now I know you have the book the Fix Yourself Handbook so if we could sort of turn and pivot a little bit towards that and how people can help themselves to start to get themselves on this journey through resources like that. You know when I wrote the book look I decided that I wanted it to mimic a counselling experience so you know and when I counsel we we review all the relevant information in a session when they leave the session I will you know they'll leave with some pointers some things okay try this don't you know it's not just an open-ended conversation well we've covered that now next week we'll do this I mean if that were me I don't know where I'd be going and I probably would stop counselling so I wrote the book the same way my chapters are six seven pages long they they're stacked with the stock with the information they need on that particular subject and then at the end of it it's it says okay now it's a let's take action session section let do these things if you keep doing these things you're going to get better and for 36 chapters we do all of that and I also wrote it like a reference book you know I say you can call me anytime you want to well a year from now when you're experiencing anger you should be able to go back to that chapter on anger and say okay those are the points I forgot and these are the things that the book said to do and I can go back and do that so what people have said to me is yeah I'm I'm doing that it did help but you know what it did they said it primed me and I actually went out and got counselling because I saw what could happen and I decided the book was a great motivator I can go back to it anytime I need it I shared it with other people but that live person now I said okay now I can do this I can based on this book I can see what it's like that's that's was one of my most important yeah and that's not such a powerful way to do it because I think there are a lot there are a lot of um preconceived ideas about about therapy and counselling and coaching and this this whole this this this whole idea of going to see some kind of professional there's an idea of it being that you know as we've mentioned a couple of times you know maybe this is the the fusty environment or the fact that it's just about the money or the fact that it's they they they're just interested in that one hour they sit there ask you a question you talk for an hour you don't get anything any feedback you feel like it's going on forever you know people can be pardon the phrase but stuck in therapy for what seems like forever and okay I actually I don't see any problem with having a professional support over a longer period of time as long as the things that you are working on are constantly changing and moving with that exactly but if you're stuck still talking about the same stuff that you were six months ago or six years ago or any given time then actually maybe that is where it can get its bad rap sometimes and you know like anything there are there are good therapists and bad therapists there are good coaches and bad coaches you know it's the same across everything so I really I highly encourage that anybody listening and thinking about seeking professional support if they're at that point in in their life or in their relationship and this is definitely an option for them that you do some research you you ask the questions you know both myself and Forrest would you know be more than welcome to to answer questions that you have concerns worries that is literally what we do so um yeah I couldn't encourage that more and so brilliant right well thank you ever so much for joining us today and time flies it's amazing how quickly these these conversations go sometimes and this today has been no different so how can people get in touch with you and how people how can people get hold of the book hey uh the best way to get in touch with me is my website is my name forstrogero.com everything about the first book and the second one which we just released the fix your anxiety handbook are on the websites uh everything you can see excerpts from the book so you get an idea whether you want to buy it or not uh that we like to be transparent uh there's a contact link if anyone wants to contact ask a couple questions it's not like you have to uh come on and be and go into counselling with me you can if you want to but you might have just have a question hey you know I'm doing this or I'm with I have people call and say I'm with my counsellor but this doesn't seem to be where I need and I'll say well good ask the person to go in this direction based on what you're telling me and see what they have to say so whatever it takes you know you know when it comes to questions about fixing your world and feeling good the only dumb question as we always say is the one you didn't ask so you have to be able to advocate for yourself whether you know so you're all listening to two people here that are willing to listen it's up to you to make a move 100 100 so I'll pop all the details in the show notes below the podcast on whichever platform you're listening to and uh yeah thank you ever so much once again it has been a pleasure thanks for having me take care thank you I hope you found our conversation today valuable and it's provided some insights on how to move forward after a breakup or betrayal accountability is key and it's important to remember that feelings of shame guilt and self-blame are common but not always justified infidelity doesn't always stem from a bad relationship but rather depends on an individual's capability to cheat whether the person leaving the relationship communicated their problems or not it's crucial to reflect on the events leading up to the breakup sometimes toxicity and dysfunction can build up over time impacting not just the adults involved but also any children who may be caught in the crossfire force reminds us to separate the hard work from the emotional aspect of tackling challenges and self-improvement shouldn't feel like a burden but rather a fun and positive journey finding humour and introducing positivity into the process it can make all the difference remember focus on the present and embrace the process during moments of intense change it's common to feel lonely and reluctant to reach out for support yet choosing to stay after experiencing betrayal is a demonstration of strength taking responsibility for ourselves can improve not just our romantic relationships but all relationships in our lives force suggests that true happiness comes from and i happen to agree we need to work on ourselves from the inside out cultivating strength internally and using that strength to shape our world rather than relying on all the external factors which are things we just can't control building a solid foundation that encompasses emotional financial intellectual and social aspects is essential for personal growth and resilience let's redefine ourselves i'd like to thank everybody again for tuning into today's episode of after the affair i encourage you to stay strong stay empowered and remember to take those small steps just one foot in front of the other and lead them towards a happier and more life and i'll speak to you all next time.