44. Redefining Masculinity with Jennifer Jehl

When betrayal shatters your sense of identity as a partner, father, or man, it’s easy to feel lost between who you were and who you must become. In this episode, I sit down with life coach Jennifer Jehl, who helps high achievers rebuild confidence and meaning. Together, we explore how societal expectations of strength often silence emotional truth and why healing demands more than just resilience.

From navigating the tension between physical strength and emotional intelligence to confronting role confusion in relationships, this conversation is a guide for anyone seeking clarity, purpose, and deeper connection after upheaval.

Key Takeaways:

• Why true masculinity includes emotional awareness, not just toughness

• How betrayal distorts identity and how to rebuild with intention

• The pitfalls of external validation and what grounded confidence looks like

• How to balance strength and vulnerability in conflict and intimacy

• Tools to redefine your purpose and lead your life with clarity

💬 Reflection questions:

Have you ever felt pressured by notions of masculinity in your relationship or after betrayal? What does strength mean to you now?

Connect with Luke:

• Website: www.lifecoachluke.com

• Instagram: @mylifecoachluke

• Email: luke@lifecoachluke.com

Join the After the Affair community at www.facebook.com/groups/aftertheaffaircommunity

Episode Transcript:

The After The Affair podcast with me Luke Shillings is here to help you process, decide and move forward on purpose following infidelity. Together we'll explore what's required to rebuild trust not only in yourself but also with others. Whether you stay or leave I can help and no matter what your story there will be something here for you.

Let's go. Hello and welcome to the After The Affair podcast with myself Luke Shillings. You're listening to episode number 44.

This week I'm talking to Jennifer Gale. She's a life coach and she helps high performers create next level confidence in order to live their lives with fulfilment and freedom. Listen in as we traverse the intense realm of self-questioning, the impact of such betrayal on our identities, particularly as husbands and fathers and confront the societal expectations attached to masculinity.

Jen enlightens us about the dichotomy of physical strength and emotional intelligence and underlines the importance of balance. She also opens up about the negative effects of societal pressures and the void of strong male role models on our younger generations. We then move on to discuss the personal imbalances that successful men often grapple with and the pivotal importance of finding their purpose and a new vision for life after challenging life situations.

Jen's insights on emotional vulnerability and the common misconceptions that surround it challenge the belief that self-reflection and emotional connection are signs of weakness. Perhaps there's a different way to look at it but without giving it all away let's just get straight into the conversation. I hope you enjoy.

Okay so if you could perhaps introduce yourself and just let us know a little bit about you, where you're from, what you do. So my name is Jen. My name is Jen Yale.

I, let's see, where am I from? I'm from all over the place because I was a military child. So I grew up, I would say, in a great way. I was cultured.

I had good parents. So my story kind of brought me to becoming a life coach, which is what I love to do. Serving people is the most beautiful thing in the world to me and it makes me feel fulfilled and it's something I want to do forever.

I did get a psychology degree in college and I never did anything with it so it's almost like I can now finally use some of the knowledge that I gained in university in my coaching. So you said that you'd obviously had a military upbringing. So I've had like kind of the flip side to that in some respects.

So I live or grew up in a village right next to an RAF base in the UK and so when I was at a primary school, I forget what the different stages of school are in the US, but so sort of ages roughly sort of four to eleven, that sort of range. So a lot of my friends at the time were on the RAF base and of course people, families got posted, as you know, very regularly. I think it's usually about every four years here.

I don't know what it's like there and it's strange. I had like my experience of it was my friends were always being taken away from me. Yeah and it was quite a strange thing and I suppose I kind of got used to it, you know, like you know it wasn't that unusual to have some kids joining the school midway through the year or some sort of random time and then you know a few years later they would disappear.

So I'm always interested to sort of hear the perspective from the the travelling child side and how that was for you. I mean you said it was a really good childhood. Well it was it was a good childhood.

Now there were times where I wasn't appreciative of, for instance, I lived in Germany for almost five years so we were able to travel all over Europe almost every weekend and now looking back I did enjoy it then but I really, really, really am grateful for it now just because it's it gives you a different view of different people, different countries, different most of the most of the people in the United States don't ever see that. So I'm really grateful. Now at the time it did take me away from my friends during the weekend and you know and I was able to go to high school in Pennsylvania which is on the east coast and that was kind of similar to what your experience was.

It was a tiny little town in Pennsylvania and you know a small town, kids who lived there forever, they always had an influx of kids that they became friends with and then they would go away. So I actually saw that from your perspective there. I was one of the high school so but I'm overall greatly appreciative of my childhood and that opportunity.

Yeah, I've met lots of people in the States over the last few years particularly during my own coaching journey and sort of building my business. I've got lots and lots of coach friends and we often have conversations about the both the similarities and the differences from the US to here in the UK and one of the common things that comes up ironically based on what you're saying is the difference in culture. So in the UK and Europe in general there is a lot of culture and a lot of history whereas by comparison the same probably isn't true.

There's a generalisation of the States and the other interesting thing is I often notice that I know and I think it's true for many people that I know I know far more things about the US than the average US citizen knows about us or even Europe or actually anywhere else in the world. I've always found that quite interesting and yeah just wondering how you because then actually you kind of didn't have that experience in a lot of ways. Right, right.

I didn't but and you're right like the culture differences and and being able to experience every single I mean you can go from country to country to country and visit many in the same day even and I think that's absolutely wild and in fact I took my two teen daughters to Paris Milan and London a couple months ago for their first overseas trip and just because the experience that I had as a kid was so life-changing and something that has made me who I am today partly. I want them to experience that too so I've decided to take many many many trips to Europe over the next couple years just so they can be exposed to everything. Yes well I highly recommend and well to be fair you probably highly recommend yourself.

Yes I do for sure. So you you said that you know you're now in your sort of your role as a coach and you're able to use some of the things that you gained from your degree so suggesting that there was a period of time where this isn't what you've done throughout your your adult life what has that looked like and how did that then lead into a coaching role for you? Well I guess I could go into kind of like what led me to even start my journey of self-discovery in the first place. I actually never did anything with that degree ever.

So my my life kind of started I call myself a toxic people pleaser and that looked like absolutely zero boundaries, lack of confidence, extremely insecure, very awkward, very shy. I was never encouraged and it's not my parents fault. I had one one parent who was very overly emotional and kind of coddling and I had one parent who was extremely stern and controlling and strict so I kind of had the two extremes and nothing in the middle and they were both doing their best job and I don't blame them at all but I kind of in turn had no encouragement or really know who I was at all.

So I think in order to please everybody because I was always trying to please people I started a very bad pattern in life of saying yes to every single thing that was suggested to me to please other people and to lessen negative reactions that might have been given in any kind of given situation. Starting in high school my first controlling toxic relationship all the way my first marriage. I have three kids and they have two different dads.

My first marriage was not good and it was my fault that I let it in my life. I'm not blaming anybody you know everyone is accountable for their own actions so I'm not trying to put blame on anybody but myself in this situation. I didn't know better.

I didn't know how to follow my boundaries. I didn't know anything about myself, my value, my belief in myself but you know it was full of affairs and sort of in a way the controlling behaviour that my dad had displayed when I was a kid. So eventually it ended and I was smart enough to end it and we actually have a good relationship now.

It's things are fine. We get along for the for the girls and you know I had a a few other very toxic relationships until my last relationship which I left three and a half years ago. It was what led me to my rock bottom and you know I had long distance dated this person for almost two years and I had every single red flag in the book.

I felt very negative feelings anytime he was around. Not negative towards him but because I wanted it to work out but negative in the way that something bad is going to happen and I didn't trust myself. I justified every single red flag I could.

Things got progressively worse with controlling and verbal abuse. Kind of the goal was almost to bring me from a level of where I was almost good with myself and becoming confident all the way down to where I literally walked with a black cloud of shame and disappointment and everything negative belief-wise towards myself and you know I eventually moved my entire family to another state to live with him including my parents which was a huge mistake and immediately when I moved and got settled that's when the physical abuse started happening and it was so sudden and so shocking to me because I'd never experienced anything like that. I didn't know what to do and so I kind of just dealt with it for a little bit.

I would say a lot a lot too long of a bit and eventually the verbal abuse started happening to my little boy who has special needs and at that point I really couldn't justify it anymore and I decided at some point there was something that happened. He was actually hit in the head which was kind of my wake-up call. It was nothing terrible but the fact that it happened was my wake-up call and the next day I literally ran away in the night with my kids to where my parents where I had moved my parents about two hours away and from that next day forward I committed to a new journey for myself.

I swore to myself that I would never let this happen to me again so I you know got on the train with a therapist, a life coach, a business mentor and then implemented my own tools over the next three to three and a half years to change my life, discover who I am, my beliefs, my vision, my purpose and all of these different things got me to a place of pure self-confidence and a desire to be bold and stand up for who I am and not always embrace the old parts of myself that were the kindness, loving, good intention. I didn't want to lose that but to be able to live with a sense of freedom because I know who I am and I know my boundaries and my non-negotiables and then nothing like that will ever be let into my life again changed me and so I wanted to then help others discover their deepest self so they can live with a sense of the same freedom even if they hadn't experienced the same things that I had. We all experience struggles and a lot of us don't know who we are and we kind of go about life on a day-to-day you know go with the flow basis and to be able to turn that into what is my passion, what is my purpose for being here and to wake up with that feeling every day because it provides such clarity and direction that's what I like to do.

Well firstly I think it's just worth celebrating everything that you just shared because sometimes for people who are living in a place that you were living in for some time it is a very lonely place and you can feel trapped and there's no way out and you don't know where to look and you don't know what the right things to do. You think everything that you might do is probably going to make the situation worse rather than better and just having you to be able to talk to that from a place of having taken that control and made that intentional decision to to walk away to protect yourself and your family and your children in this case is just it's so empowering and I can't imagine what that must have actually felt like at the time and and yeah I think I think it's just amazing that you've been so open and I just want to say thank you for that and I know that people will really really appreciate that that honesty. Thank you.

So you said that you've now you're using much of your own life experience much of that sort of like self-discovery that journey that you sort of kind of found yourself on and using that to help others. Now you and I we connected on one of the social media platforms and I've seen your content for for some time and it's always fantastic it's always very empowering and it's one of the reasons that that I reached reached out initially but from from what I understand you work predominantly with men. So I just wanted to understand how that came given you know your own story and the sort of the how that all falls in line.

Right so that's a good question. It's something I do get asked a lot because what gives me the credibility to work with men. I do only work with men.

I originally started with the desire to help the old me the woman who was maybe highly driven as a person but stuck in bad situations and she felt like she couldn't get out of them had no confidence and was basically living in fear. I wanted to help that person but I had some issues and a lot of the people I wanted to help the women I wanted to help they were very hesitant to take action because they weren't they weren't ready they were still living in fear and I had an experience with my first male client and I together we really changed his life and it was the most beautiful transformation I maybe have seen because it was my first real experience and you know I was able to help him repair relationships with his adult son his sister his mother like having the good the having better conversations with people to repair years of damage. I was able to help him get complete sense of confidence back in his life through movement, through a mindset change, through all kinds of different methods and I just knowing that I knew that I wanted to work with men and to get further into it that's kind of at the same time I discovered my passion for masculinity the true what I call the biblical masculinity and I realised why I was so passionate about it is because my especially for me my girls have never had a true male role model in that biblical masculinity sense and I think that the lack of a strong man in a child's life is extremely detrimental and I if I couldn't go back and change any of my choices and I wouldn't want to because that's who I am today but at the same time I think it's extremely important and wish my girls had had that opportunity to have that strong masculine man I think their lives would be different and they will definitely be lacking something from it that I don't think I could give them you know I try my best I try my best to give them both and but but that's why I'm so passionate about it because I've seen the effects of a weak man on my family and especially on society in the community weak men are very prevalent these days and to kind of bring awareness to that fact is important to me and so yeah go ahead yeah so I'm gonna say so talk talking to that I'm thinking about so a lot of the people that listen to the podcast a lot of the people that I work with and many of the conversations that I have particularly with men who have been betrayed so they're on the other side of the spectrum in this case where it's not it's not the guy that's been unfaithful and the initial place to go is to look internally and start to self-blame and you know what could I have done better how was I you know how what how did I miss this you know I thought everything was fine you know I thought I was fulfilling this this role this identity as the the husband the family man the father all of these these roles and then of course there's this like immediate like impact the book's been pulled from under your feet and it's like oh uh maybe I wasn't doing any of those things what what was I doing wrong so just does that make these do they fall into the man category or or what it what is it specifically that you know from your perspective and the people that you've been working with what is it that separates the the weak man let's say to the the strong secure right man so I think weak men um I think maybe we all have kind of a different definition of what that would I don't from what you're describing and these you know stereotypical clients like I don't I wouldn't consider them as a weak man because they had a desire to be a good husband and a good father and it wasn't anything that I assume that they did now a weak man to me is more of the sense of that toxic masculinity type of man that people think of when they hear the word masculine in general these days so that's the man who is impulsive who is controlling who uses intimidation who is not emotionally vulnerable who is just a mean guy um that's the weak man that I'm that I'm thinking of they are dangerous in an impulsive way whereas a strong man for me is dangerous in a controlling way kind of um in that biblical sense like you are you have the capability to protect defend and you know actually take risks uh smart risks for your family it's it's very controlled um you may never see that side of somebody these men are emotionally vulnerable um I think that's a huge part of being a strong masculine man and that is something that I get the most negative feedback about actually um men a lot of men don't think that they should be emotionally vulnerable and that's what brings connection and trust and and and deeper intimacy on any in any kind of relationship whether it's with your children or your friend or your colleagues or your spouse so I think that's extremely important and I'm glad you bring that up because I think again sort of thinking back to the the perspective and I completely agree with everything you've said that we can we can use this this terminology and we can also be subjective depending on what situations and which type of relationships and what kind of people we're talking about when you have the guys that are self-reflecting even if it's through a forced situation like a betrayal in this case and this sign of maybe they weren't paying attention maybe they weren't in touch with their own emotions with their own feelings they weren't even as self-aware that and then and then self-reflecting that that in it would have been a weakness like by again it's very very typical for for the man you know it's it's you know big boys don't cry you know man up there's all this kind of language that that much of western society has been brought up with over the last I don't know how many decades it's it's it's common it's almost it's something I'd refer to as almost emotional childhood it's stuff that you learn when you're young and then you don't question as you grow up as an adult and then you still apply those same rules and of course as I've said before on the podcast this is not only this is not a case of all the guys getting together and going down to the bar and having a good cry that's that's not the objective it's about recognising that actually our emotions are responsible for everything that we do and yeah even I sometimes get a bit of kickback because it's like oh he's always talking about feelings he's always talking about emotions it's like they really are the fuel for every single action and behaviour that you take as an individual so if you don't have control of those then what are you even doing it's like putting a really poor quality you know gas or fuel in your car and then wondering why it's not going very well it's the same thing if you don't if you don't fuel it it won't perform and so to think of that emotional connection and that ability to communicate with yourself on that level to consider that weakness it could not be further from the truth right considering that weakness is weakness in itself that's a very strong trait and you know and like you said being self-aware being in tune with yourself and being able to share that with others and being open and willing to accept that part in others as well I think that's that's that's extremely important and something that men need to do better with now I'm also also interested in the because again it's something that I've learned about myself and I have maybe partially just through my own mentors and the people that I've been surrounded in my life I'm not sure exactly what it is but when you talk about this idea of being dangerous but controlled right like I can I can imagine that that many people find that almost a contradiction in some way right and and it's like well where's the line you know because maybe maybe the guy wants to display his prowess in some some way but but how how does he define and walk that line that isn't you know particularly if he's not being taught again coming back to this sort of emotional childhood where you're learning these things from maybe from your parents or from things that you've seen on tv or in movies or even just just decades of societal expectation right it now feels like you can get to you know like say my age in my early 40s and all of a sudden you're hearing this message of you know I need to be maybe you know take control of my my power and be in good physical shape and good health and and be intentional and focused and maybe driven and that doesn't always necessarily mean you know successful businessmen it can mean lots of different things um but actually just yeah I'd like you to talk to that a little bit in terms of where those lines are drawn and how you how how from from a female perspective how you would define that yeah so and you're right you know um I think the media and you know Hollywood and society in general has really taught men uh not just to be weak but also to have those outwardly dangerous um behaviours that aren't true they're not what I'm talking about so I think it's important to be able to be physically strong and healthy absolutely um and I think you should be able so I think you should be able to protect and provide and feel a sense of control over your household or um the people you care about um I think that being able to control that is the key though you know keeping that dangerous part of you sheathed and knowing that you have it I think the but the self-control is the is the biggest key so we all want to be feel protected and I think that's men men should men should provide that um men too often let their anger get the best of them and that is again going into that sense of thinking they are dangerous but they're really not because it's coming from a place of insecurity um lack of control yeah yes the impulsivity type of reaction dangerous reaction um but being able to have self-control over um over those things in arguments in you know potential you know men who start fights for no reason that's that's a good example whether it's a verbal fight with your spouse or a fight with the guy at the bar being able to control those those emotions it's really just the emotions that come into play and being aware and and wanting to be as calm as possible but but also very effective so I think uh yeah that sense of dangerous it's it's it's important but it gets a bad it has a bad definition I guess we'll be right back in just a moment are you feeling lost and confused after infidelity introducing the on-purpose coaching programme the path to transforming your pain into empowerment by taking back control the on-purpose coaching programme is specifically designed to help you go from feeling paralysed by betrayal to feeling empowered and secure in your relationships as someone who has already walked this journey I understand your struggles and provide a customised coaching experience tailored to your unique situation don't let betrayal define you take control of your life and regain your confidence visit lifecoachluke.com today to learn more about the transformative on-purpose coaching programme plus you can book a let's talk discovery call to explore how I can support you personally and don't forget to subscribe to receive the latest relationship tips and tricks in your email box once a week take the first step towards a stronger more empowered you visit lifecoachluke.com today and unlock your true potential and let's get back to the show so again and you use use the words of sort of like protect and provide and that in some respects does take us back to maybe a more um I wish the appropriate word for it but like a more stereotypical imagined perception of what you know a two-person relationship a heterosexual relationship should or could look like let's say so is that saying that the the man is taking up more of a role or how where does that where does the female partner come into this and what where's the balance and how how is that so yeah so for me I think um and what my number one trait of biblical masculinity would be leadership and I think you know I I don't think that the man should be in control of everything by any means I think the woman should be very independent and um driven herself I definitely am but at the same time I think that the man should be you know I'm a very traditional person so traditionally speaking I think the man should be the leader of the household and the leader would be the person who guides who teaches who is the role model for the children and and and kind of encourages the children to be their best self encourages his spouse to be her best self like wants her to go out and win you know every day with whatever she's doing so it's that leadership role I think that it that should be the the male's job so yeah so really a case of like it's where both partners are working to the common goal and and sort of they they're using that combined their combined strengths if you like which are different to each other yes to to to get for the for the greater good in some respects of the relationship as a whole or for them even if for them as an individual I I saw something the other day I think it was Brene Brown um I've just seen some clip on there on social media I forget exactly and she was talking about this idea that with her and her husband you know if if she if she come if she comes in he and he's like I'm I'm at I'm at a 20 I'm just you know like an emotion in terms of like his emotional state is his energy levels you know whatever that looks like exactly and so it's like I'm at a 20 and she's like well I've got you I've got you I'll I'll I'll make up the 80 the missing 80 so combined as a unit we're combined and that's okay and then other days it flips the other way and you know she comes in she's a bit low and he he takes up the slack so to speak and they're working together as this unit but then what she then went on to say which was interesting was some days of course we're both low on energy you know or effort or motivation or whatever it may be around that specific thing and maybe one of them's at a 10 and the other ones at a 30 let's say when that happens and their combined total doesn't equal the 100 that they're aiming for this 100% rainfall that's when they collectively get together and talk that stuff through to figure out a combined action plan to move things forward regardless of the individual situation I thought was such a great way of working together as a team without having to sort of like try and comply to some kind of idealistic 50 50 yeah yes I love that a lot I think definitely the way it should be and again that goes back to being let's say emotionally vulnerable um I think a lot of the time a problem in marriages is that one person is not communicating like that um and and saying what maybe it would be even hard for someone to say hey I'm at a 20 today can you help me out you know even saying that is great acknowledgement and and I think is extremely important for a marriage oh absolutely and again even more so for let's say the stereotypical guy you know they don't want to admit that they're just struggling and they're fighting it hard and they haven't got that support and the last thing they want to do as the provider and the protector and then this the self-expectation that they're giving themselves to fulfil that role it's like well I can't be shown to be weak I can't be shown to be vulnerable but actually what we're saying me and Jen are saying here is actually actually you know by displaying that and just excuse me discussing that and working together actually that is the strength and that is what will move you forward absolutely that's what creates that sense of trust and communication and openness and willing to work through things together like a team so when you come to work with the guys that you're working with where do you start are people coming to you at similar places is it business focused is it personal focus what what's it yeah so most of the men who come to me for help are excelling in their business for the most part I've had a few that I've that I've helped um go different ways with maybe some side hustles and creating some more of a purposeful uh personal brand but for the most part they're excelling in their careers but they are very imbalanced in their personal life so maybe their marriage is rocky maybe they don't have a marriage anymore um spiritually they're in they're imbalanced um physically mentally emotionally um financially like all of the different like maybe they have no idea why they're here they have no idea what their legacy will be um at the end of their life and that's I think really important so I kind of help create a new vision for their life in all those different areas even things as simple as hobbies these are just things we forget about and and as we change from you know let's say 20s to 40s we really have to re-evaluate who we are because the degree to which we change in that time period is so massive but and I think that contributes to the to the concept of like the midlife crisis I think that that's what it is as we you know get to a certain spot and we have no idea where who we are in our life where we seem unhappy but we have an okay life so we don't know why we're unhappy and it's because we don't know who we are so I think helping helping men figure this out and redefine their beliefs their their ideas and vision for what they want exactly in their life very clearly create a new purpose and be able to tailor daily action steps to kind of achieve all of that is what I like to do most.

So what's the tipping point is it is it burnout they've been focussing so much on the business and paying so little attention to their personal life and then they realise that their business isn't creating all the things that is required in their personal life? Yeah so I get a lot of burnout and then the other thing that I that I hear a lot is you know I just they I I just feel like I don't know who I am I I'm not living for anything I feel kind of numb so that's where I feel like I can really help the most and I love I love to watch people figure out who they are again because being able to live with clarity makes your decision making easy and simple it makes overthinking less of a possibility because you have a path you're aligned with it you know who you are you know how to stay on the path and you then you know have a sense of confidence and because you know exactly where you want to go so boundaries are easy everything is everything is so simple when you know where you are going. Brilliant well I know that I'm inspired every time I hear you speak and I can relate as well and I certainly there's been plenty of people that I've worked with who I've helped do similar things but I could also see how that there's sort of some of the things in your approach which would be really beneficial. So how do people connect with you? How do they learn about you and find out all the things? Yeah so I have an Instagram and LinkedIn under Jennifer Yale that's j-e-h-l and my Instagram is jen.yale that's where I do most of my hosting and you can read about me and connect with me there.

Perfect I shall pop those in the show notes in the podcast in the apps as well so everybody can find that afterwards. So thank you ever so much. Thank you so much for having me.

I want to take a moment to reflect on the insightful conversation that we just had. Jen's work with men who have experienced upheaval in their relationships sheds light on the unique challenges that they face. When I think about those who have been betrayed often finding themselves questioning their roles as husbands, wives, mothers and fathers they all grapple with feelings of shock, uncertainty and often self-blame.

I like the way that Jen explored the concept of strength and weaknesses in men particularly and the challenges societal norms and Hollywood portrayals promote such as dangerous behaviours being a sign of masculinity. The truth is true strength lies in self-control, emotional awareness and vulnerability. It's considered crucial for men to be physically strong and healthy in essence but equally important to cultivate emotional intelligence and self-reflection.

By doing so they can navigate conflicts with calmness and effectiveness and maintain deeper connections in their relationships. What struck me most about Jen's work is her passion for helping men redefine their beliefs, discover their purpose and create intentional actions to achieve their new vision. Remember supporting each other within our relationships emotionally is crucial and it's not always about a perfect 50-50 division.

Instead it's about working together as a team especially during those challenging moments when both partners are feeling low. I'm truly grateful to have had Jen on the podcast today and for sharing her expertise and shedding light on the struggles that men face after experiencing betrayal from a female perspective. I encourage you as the listeners to continue the conversation, reach out to me and offer me your thoughts, questions or even suggestions for future podcast episodes.

Remember no topic is off-limits for After The Affair. Thank you again for joining me today and I really look forward to having you back again next time so until then take care.